There were some, er, misunderstandings and perhaps even a few hurt feelings here this past week, so, a few clarifications.
One reader said (rather rashly perhaps, as he is an excellent commenter): "I don't expect you to post this comment, as I have the impression you do not like dissent from your views." The sentence quoted was what I call a "kicker"—a parting shot at the end of a comment that doubles down more forcefully on the point the writer is trying to make. ("Kickers" are common in contentious comments—in fact, I've learned that when I find myself adding a kicker to one of my own comments, it's a good idea to wait a while and reconsider the comment.)
Do I really not brook dissent? Perhaps a little—I'm opinionated, and, like everyone else, I'll make a case for what I believe in. But in the main, I don't think so. In a great many posts, you'll find comments pro and con, sometimes right next to each other. For example (only an example, and yes, examples are not proof): in the Alt/Indie music post:
Commenter 1: "Huh. I've heard of Jeff Beck and Ray Davies (if it's the same Ray Davies I used to know), but none of the rest of them. I think they stopped writing good music around that time."
Next Comment: "Mike, thanks for that. I opened the Spotify playlist and it made my day. It's right up my alley."
So one reader who did not like the music and one who did. I think if you dig around a bit, you'll find that I very often feature opposing viewpoints in the Featured Comments. And that often includes comments that disagree with the post.
What I don't allow—and this may be the genesis of the reader's objection—is back-and-forth. Altercation.
"Altercation is the spoken part of a quarrel, the parties speaking alternately. An altercation is thus a quarrelsome dispute between two persons or two sides." [Century Dictionary]
So if someone makes a comment, and I reply, the original poster gathers his forces and girds for battle and weighs in with a second post defending his first post more strenuously—and then I disallow that. But it has little to do with the fact that the second post is a dissent; it has to do with the fact that it's the beginning of an altercation. This is enshrined in the Comment Guidelines thusly:
The goal is simply to keep the conversation pleasant, collegial, and helpful. I don't like "flame wars" and I don't permit them to get going in TOP's comment section.
Why not? Simply because I've been online since before the word online came into common use—first on Xtalk at Dartmouth in the mid-1970s, later as Darkroom Photography magazine's official representative on CompuServe in the early '90s, and so on—and I know how it goes.
It goes like this. The missiles fly alternately, each side digs in, tempers grow hotter, ad hominem begins, and then the world spins on its axis as we continue our voyage 'round the sun, until presently Godwin's Law plays out and one accuses the other of being a Nazi, at which point (see the link) that person (the accuser) loses the war.
Don't tell me you've never seen it happen.
Ever seen real firemen put out a fire? I got to witness it once. I was awakened in the middle of the night by sirens. Looking out the window of my third-floor (the top floor) walkup in Georgetown D.C., I could see flames in a window of an apartment on the third and top floor of the building across the street. Several fire trucks screeched to a halt in front of the building and firemen scrambled all over. They moved fast. It was impressive. Within seconds there were firemen on the roof. In no time at all they had a ladder to the window where the flame was. One fireman bashed in the window and another followed close behind with a hose. They had the fire out in no time (a resident had fallen asleep while smoking in bed, and fortunately survived). They were impressively efficient. I had a panoramic front-row seat to the whole drama. It was very entertaining.
They didn't leave for a long time, and evidently felt no compunction to be at all quiet in the dead of night, so after a while I got dressed and went down to poke around. A fireman I talked to said it was only a little mattress fire that had scorched the room but hadn't spread beyond it, and I replied that they sure moved quickly even so. He told me that they always move fast, because fires can get out of control quickly.
Bingo.
I had one reader years ago who repeatedly made contentious comments and seemed always to be picking fights with other readers. It was a headache for me, as I had to spend time and effort repeatedly explaining to him why I was editing and disallowing his comments. Finally he said, "But I like to fight. That's the whole reason I get online and it's the reason I come here." And he issued a threat: "If you're not going to let me fight, I'm leaving!"
To which I had the satisfaction of replying: "Bye." (Made meself laugh, and that's half the battle —Craig Ferguson.)
Seasons in the wrong
Another problem I have is when commenters make statements I know to be wrong or misleading. Sometimes I let these stand, sometimes I don't feel like it. I've been doing this job for so long that I can even recognize which particular misconceptions are popular at any given moment, and sometimes I know the source from which they emanated, even. Back in the film days, when someone stridently made a bunch of claims as if he knew it all, I could usually tell you what book he just read. Currently it's that a Micro 4/3 sensor "cuts off part of the image," sigh, not. The photographer chooses the lens for the subject and that's what determines whether the subject fits the angle of view. Occasionally I chase one all the way down, just so I really know what's what. But you can't do that with everything. Each misconception has its season, and then it subsides. Care to argue whether fixer sinks to the bottom of a print washer because it's heavier than water? (Because some washers drained from the top and some from the bottom, and people had to decide which is better.) Of course you don't. Just like we no longer care to argue hotly about whether up-rezzing a three-megapixel file is just as good for a medium-sized print as having an expensive 6-MP camera to start with. I've no doubt that some people who are happily arguing whether "equivalent apertures" exist (no, they do not) were at one time arguing, equally happily, the effects of added sodium sulfite on film grain. It's a fool's errand to try to correct every instance of every misconception as it arises; you'll spend your precious hours playing whack-a-mole. Each of us only has 4,000 weeks here on Earth, give or take, and you already stand to lose eight of them stuck in traffic.
It's always something. In discovering the basics of photo tech, everyone has to go through their not-quite-there-yet phase.
Cordial and mature
So a commenter can reply to a reply, but only if the tone is right. That's the way I do it. Because I really don't like flame wars, and fires are best put out early. If shutting down an argument before it starts means giving the appearance of not tolerating dissent, well, too bad, but so be it. At this point I have moderated some 298,000 comments, give or take 10,000, and have devoted many, many weeks of my life to the task. I might not know what I'm doing, but I know how I do it, you've got to give me that.
And by the way, fixer does not sink to the bottom of a print washer. So now we've got that settled, once and for all.
Mike
Products of the Week
Which one is best? Panasonic S1R (47.3 MP), Sony A7R IV (61 MP), Canon R5 (45 MP), or Nikon Z7 II (45.7 MP)? You know the answer.
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(To see all the comments, click on the "Comments" link below.)
Featured Comments from:
Rob de Loe: "I feel like arguing. You can pick the topic! ;-)
"P.S. For a period of a couple of months, the newspaper I read most often could not let readers make any comments on stories at its online site because the company was looking for a new comment service. It was a wonderful time, in hindsight. Unfortunately, they found another comment service, and now the comment section is just wretched. Despite the rules about 'civility,' it's just angry people sniping at each other. Blech."
Mike replies: I've always conceived of the Comments Section as a "Letters to the Editor." A curated and edited collection of thoughtful responses, objections, corrections, and added information. The "Featured Comments" started out as a minimized version of the comments as a whole, for the convenience of readers who did not have the time to read all the comments. But that was back in the days when I got 24,000 views a day (now more like 8–12k) and a post could get up to 200 comments (I think 274 was the all-time record? Something like that). That doesn't happen any more.
Robert Roaldi: "Holy crap, you just gave me a scare. I just went into my photo 'data base' and checked all my 4/3s images, but thankfully there's nothing missing from any of them."
D Glos: "Contentious thought for the day. It's nice to come to this spot on the internet where everyone appears to play nice and there is always something interesting to ponder. Whether the convivial appearance has been carefully cultivated by your erudite moderation, or more naturally, by the good nature of your audience, matters little to me."
Mike replies: Definitely both. I take half the credit, but no more than that.
Sharon: "I like your approach here and hate forums where people argue ad nauseam. Thank you!"
KeithB: "I thought for sure you were going to link to Monty Python's 'The Argument Clinic.'"
Bruce Bordner: "But I've paid for the full five minutes....
Mike replies: No you haven't.
RubyT: "This is one of the few sites where I will read the comments. I am never afraid of what I will encounter here, and I appreciate your work in this regard. I often learn things new things by reading the comments here, which I wouldn't if I were avoiding potential flame wars."
c.d.embrey: "Re 'Do I really not brook dissent? Perhaps a little—I'm opinionated, and, like everyone else, I'll make a case for what I believe in.' Mike, during the height of your veggie diet obsession you got very upset when people disagreed. The Mayo Clinic was wrong, so were all the U.S. Government nutrition guidelines. You said my doctors at Hoag Hospital Presbyterian in Newport Beach were incompetent."
Mike replies: But did I disallow your comments? I don't believe I did. So that's not suppressing your views. You got to express them. You don't get to demand, however, that I agree with everything you say.
And I doubt I said your doctors were incompetent. I might have claimed that doctors make poor authorities on nutrition generally, despite public perception, because a.) the majority of American medical schools don't teach nutrition; b.) the typical PCP (personal care physician) has never taken a single course in nutrition; and c.), by and large, medical students leave medical school with less interest in and curiosity about the science of nutrition than they had when they entered.
Rob L: "Your comments section is what makes your site so valuable. Your cultivation of that rich plot is deeply, deeply, appreciated—this is the web I fell in love with in 1993. This is the online community that we were promised in Wired magazine and long lost Omni, and a true jewel. I say that, having been edited here once, as I was being a twit and trying to raise an argument—and I deeply appreciated the effort you made to keep this community open, diverse, and tremendously informative, all while keeping a collegial tone in saying—'no, not that, here, thanks.' Thank you, Mike. I've been a web developer since there was a Web and have done so professionally nigh on mumble mumble years, and this site is a testament to what we built this world wide community to be."
Pak Wan: "This post makes me so happy as one of your readers. Your effort and leadership to curate your blog commentary and readership is missing so much in the online world. Thank you!"