My other question this morning is that "little" problem with Nikon's new Z8. It's this: have we really gotten to the point where we have to spend four thousand dollars for a camera that's not even the top of the line?!?
Kinda like spending $100,000 on a Boxster and having people look down their noses at you because you can't afford the good Porsche.
When I was poking around learning about the Z8, I encountered in at least two separate places the word "aggressively" when talking about how Nikon is pricing the Z8. Yeah, Nikon is really biting the bullet and giving away the farm when it's willing to take a mere four grand for a body.
I always have to be on the lookout for mis-perception. I know that older people (I'm 66) tend to have an outdated concept of the value of a dollar. On one episode, Richie Cunningham's old-fart father on Happy Days was scandalized because gas was 25¢ a gallon, and the studio audience went ooooooooh. When I matriculated at Dartmouth it was the most expensive college in the country. It cost $1,300 a trimester, or $3,900 per year, for tuition, not counting room and board, books, or lab fees. Add all those things and it was a cool six grand annually. I just looked it up, and the average cost before financial aid for one year of a Dartmouth education now is $81,501. The average cost after aid, including grants and scholarships from the college, the state, and the federal government, is a piffling $33,023. I'm so old that not only does $81,501 for a year of college actually seems like kind of a lot, but $33,023 does too. I'm sure most young people are like, "what?"
So maybe it's me, is what I'm saying.
I have one more point to make about this, but I'm having trouble expressing it, which doesn't happen often. I've tried to write it about four times and I'm not happy with it. I'll let you weigh in on this first, and give that another go later.
Mike
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Thom Hogan: "Long ago I learned the difference between current value, future value, and other forms of valuation.
"Unfortunately, most people don't get there, so they do things like spend today thinking tomorrow will be the same price and they can catch up on savings later. Vice versa, they believe something that they paid X for still has a value of X (or at least hasn't depreciated much).
"The truth about digital cameras is simple: 1.) current pricing has tended slightly above inflation as market size went down and camera companies simply built more expensive models to keep their revenue/profits intact. 2.) past models depreciate far faster in value than people think, to the point where there's little value in a five-year-old camera left. 3.) Inflation never left, but it's now back at higher levels, and this means that X dollars now is not X dollars tomorrow.
"If you can't get a grip with all three of those things, you will find you feel like you're falling behind, or that things have significantly changed to your detriment. Everyone wants to take their eye off the ball, but this is one of the most important balls to keep track of.
"As for 'Nikon's aggressive pricing,' I've been reporting that for some time: at basically the same level of camera, Nikon has been pricing lower than Canon and Sony, at least for full frame. I believe that's intentional and necessary.
"At the lower end of the market (APS-C/DX), Nikon is pricing higher than Canon and Sony, for the most part.
"But then you have to apply what I wrote earlier. A Z50 kit today costs basically US$1,000. Twenty years ago that would have been US$600. So that Z8 is equivalent to a US$2,400 camera in price back in 2003. Go look and see what that camera was and compare it to what you get today. ;~) "
Robert Roaldi: "People like to spend a lot of money; it gives them pleasure; you have to let them. :-)
"The cost vs. benefits analysis that working pros, or at least advanced amateurs, go through is one thing. People buying themselves a once-per-decade treat approach things differently, I think. Anyway, I see people with pristine clean $60,000 behemoth personal trucks, taller than I am, in grocery store parking all the time. $4,000 is less than the annual depreciation on their vehicles. People spends tens of thousands of dollars on weddings. That party lasts a day, tops."
Mike replies: According to a recent article in The Atlantic, there are 13,000 weddings annually in America that cost $1 million or more.
Ken Bennett: "Re: Thom Hogan's reply to your post. Back in 2001 we bought a pair of Canon D30 digital cameras, for $3,000 each. They'd be closer to $6k now, and they were total dogs. The files were nice, but the autofocus was objectively lousy, and the buffer nonexistent. Three raw photos and it locked up for 20 seconds. Fine for landscapes, but not so much for journalism. But we persevered. :-) My new Fuji X-H2s bodies were $3,000 each with the vertical grip, and they are light years beyond those early digital models. Soooooooo much better, and for half the cost, in real dollars."
Rick Popham: "I see Thom has already mentioned this, but the Z8 pricing is aggressive versus comparable Sony and Canon models. To me, while I don't really want to spend $4k on a camera, the price seems fair. Back in 2012 I dropped $3k on the Big Dragoon—the D800, which I very happily used for years. Now I'm pretty comfortably using Micro 4/3 gear, but am also a bit nostalgic for the processing flexibility I got with that 10+ year old sensor. So I'm starting to hear the Siren call of the Z8. Somebody tie me to the mast! Must. Be. Strong."
Christopher Perez: "Until the recent pandemic, durable goods inflation was for all practical purposes non-existant. If you don't believe me, look at the information provided by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. Looking into my crystal ball I'd say that durable goods inflation will return to zero in the next year or so. Non-durable goods are another matter. So what's going on with cameras and lenses? I think the situation is very similar to the motorcycle market of the 1980s. In the early '80s you could buy a brand new Japanese 450cc streetbike for around $1,000. Buy the end of the decade the price was double that. Why? Because the Japanese manufacturers knew the market was shrinking into a leisure activity niche. So to chase better gross margin and some modicum of market sustainability, prices rose, volumes dropped, and specialization became king (broadly off-road on one end and cafe-racers on the other, with a bit of touring thrown in). Sounds familiar? The Japanese camera manufacturers seem to me to be doing today what Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Honda did with their motorcycles 40 years ago. Just a thought."
Steve Biro: "Thom Hogan’s post about the price and value of digital cameras rings true—even if I personally feel $3,000 (or close to it) is a more appropriate price for the Z8. What bothers me more is the price of vehicles these days. Cars and trucks that were $25,000 two years ago are $35,000 today. And it’s not just inflation. If that were true, prices would be up in the 15 percent range. The automakers may have been facing big supply chain issues for a while, but the pandemic also taught them how to make twice as much money selling half as many cars. And so the consumer is being soaked. I wonder how true that is in other industries?"
Malcolm Myers: "I look at the cost of new cameras and just baulk; they are very expensive to my mind. I am still happily using ten+-year-old cameras that are sufficient for me. If I lost one I'd simply buy another secondhand for a fraction of new. I'd maybe even upgrade to an eight-year-old camera! But I don't think it's just cameras. In the mid-1980s I went to see Bruce Springsteen and it cost £40 as I recall. He now sells tickets for nearer £300, which I felt was very expensive. I just checked an inflation calculator and £40 in 1985 is about £118 today, so maybe things are more expensive now."