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Thursday, 23 February 2023


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I’ve been looking at Canon lately because I’m thinking about picking up one of their 2022 APS-C cameras for my wildlife photography. The consensus seems to be that the $879 2022 24MP R10 is the new Rebel. If so, Canon has made some nice improvements over the last EF mount Rebel (2020 24MP 8Ti/850D) while in true Canon fashion, maintaining some of the frustrating limitations.

The R10 has R3 based AF tracking, Twin control dials, AF joystick, 15 fps mechanical shutter and the ability to customize two different back buttons for single point & AF tracking…but Canon chose to not make a grip available for the tiny R10. My 12MP 2008 450D Rebel with grip was the absolute perfect size/weight. They also chose to give it a viewfinder magnification spec similar to my old 450D and the R10’s LCD has similar specs to my 2012 6D. I realize they need to incentivize me to upgrade for business reasons but they always seem to do it in a way that’s annoying. The idea of not enjoying the feel or view through a new $1000 camera that all my lenses will need to be adapted to is a tough pill to swallow. I suppose I could just put a SmallRig cage around it, attach a custom grip, and live with the viewfinder…but it’s annoying.

I’ve been using Canon cameras since 2008 and have really enjoyed them but I would not say I’m a fanboy by any stretch. They always seem to find a way to annoy folks trying to assemble a kit on a budget. FYI – If you do a web search on the term “panboy” it seems the term is taken.

On the lens front…Canon is discontinuing EF lenses at a rapid pace. It seems that the EF, EF-S and EF-M mounts are not long for this world.

Your question may have been asked and answered (yes):


(Believe it or not, I bookmarked this piece last week to forward to you and then forgot about it.)

Mike, I don't know if you meant to say that EF-S and RF-S are separate lens mounts, but they're not.

EF-S isn't a separate lens mount, it denotes lenses that mechanically fit the EF mount, but are only compatible optically with APS-C cameras. EF-S lenses generally can't be used on "full frame" Canon EF DSLR camera bodies.

The RF mount system is similar in that RF-S lenses are designed for use with APS-C RF-mount cameras but different in that RF-S lenses can be used on "full frame" RF-mount cameras. The camera then works in a crop mode with reduced resolution (i.e. not using half of the sensor pixels).

There's a compatibility chart here: https://www.canon.co.uk/lenses/compatibility/#id_2239835

The M-mount is a totally separate mount from both of these and appears to have been an evolutionary dead end. It's days are very likely numbered.

I think the Rebels have already been replaced. Not by either the R8 or the R50, but by last year’s two cameras, the R7 and R10. The former was an almost one-for-one replacement for the 90D (ok, not a Rebel) while the R10 was the replacement for the Rebel line (and was priced accordingly). Note that there was never an EF successor to the 850D (European nomenclature).

These APS-C R cameras have the same problem as the Rebels and XXD cameras - an absence of good APS-C lenses from Canon. The 90D did OK because it was, I think, largely used by photographers looking for a wildlife/action/birding camera, and they used good quality long lenses with it. The EF 100-400 Mk2 was a very popular choice. The Rebel line however was hugely hampered by the absence of decent lenses, and the same will be true in the APS-C R range.

Looking at the new cameras, the R50 is, as you say, a straight-forward replacement for the M50 bodies, which have been very popular (I gather). The R8 is more of a puzzle - the electronics of the R6Mk2, but in an inferior body. I wonder if it’s intended to give enthusiast photographers a low-cost body with which they can buy very good lenses such that when funds allow they can upgrade to a better body without having to replace their lenses as well?

One more point - there are a million Rebels and other EOS DSLRs out there. My local camera shop has 45 secondhand EOS DSLRs on their shelves, starting at £20 or so for very old Rebels and running up to a handful of 5D Mk4s for around £1400 or so. Anyone who wants an EOS DSLR can certainly still get one, and more cheaply than ever.

If the RT was in prehistoric days, I’d hate to think about my age. My first ‘real’ camera was the Canon EF, bought in 1974 after grad school and the start of my first salaried position. It was followed by the smaller, more popular, Canon AE-1 a few years later; well before the RT. But I never owned another Canon, instead exploring 10 other brands during my photo journey. If I were switching from my current Leica digital bodies, some of the Nikons seem more appealing than the Canons, but I have no reason or desire to explore brands at my old, old age.

Mike--I love your "befuddled" posts where you are trying to make sense of something that doesn't really make sense to you and you are not an expert on. They are really quite funny and make me smile.

That is all!


In Japan, the Rebel cameras usually got named "Kiss." The M50 was the Kiss M, and the M50 Mark II was the Kiss M2, which tells you where they positioned them in the market. the internet has been talking about the fact that the Kiss brand has been killed off by Canon, and that it has been implied that the Rebel brand will go with it.

This might be a little bit OT but I read this article first in my Apple News feed. More and more of your articles are showing up there and it occurred to me that you might prefer that we read them here. There aren’t any ads in the Apple News version so does reading them there affect you financially somehow? Do you get credit for “clicks” or “eyeballs” or however you track things if I read one of your articles there instead of here? Happy to do whatever helps this site the most.

I think, and I think that consensus is that the R10 was the shot across the bow, the first R series camera that clearly fit in the Rebel role.

The R50 actually replaces two cameras, I think. Obviously the R50, but also the Rebel SL2, which is similar in size & weight.

The Problem with the Rebel brand was that in Japan it was called "Kiss", and in Europe it just went by numbers. When reading dpreview reviews and forums I would have to "translate" the models. It was just stupid in a globalized market. I think it was more or less the shrinking entry level photography market, that forced Canon to give up the stupid Rebel/Kiss/xxxD trifold branding. I hope Canon will go with the more logical European "just larger numbers for entry level bodies" scheme.

The R8 is an update of the RP.
3 stops more exposure latitude due to a more modern sensor, big speed increase, handling improvements. I've been shooting with a pair of RP bodies, they'll get replaced by two R8 bodies when they arrive.

Light weight, put a the RF35/1.8 or RF50/1.8 on, hang it round your neck all day without noticing. Go out and shoot life while others are comparing specifications in the internet. Cheap enough to replace if it gets damaged while doing interesting stuff.

Kind of an M4 Leica for this century. OCOLOY anybody?

When I worked for Nikon from 2003-2006 (involved in doing both websites and marketing), one of the points that I made in our ads was that "the competition" had three sensor sizes and two bayonet mounts - the Nikon "D" system was fully standardized. Sour grapes for not offering FF, I guess...

Canon used FF, APS-H, and APS-C sensors, and since you are not physically able to mount an EF-S lens on a full-frame or film camera sporting the EF mount, I still believe that I was correct :-)

Meanwhile, Sigma's CEO says they've stopped m4/3 development, claiming low demand, and that demand for APS lenses is declining too. Not surprising, I suppose, outside of his bluntness, but it seems to me that Sigma has been moving its eggs to other baskets anyway, making the statement a bit self-serving as well.


I have a lot of EF glass. New camera would have to support that. My EOS 5DSr takes amazing landscape photos which is where I'm at. Weight still no object at age 70. Don't care about video either.

This is happening just five or so years after Canon put out the M100 to tempt smartphone snappers to move up to "real" cameras.

I'd forgot about Canon's long association with tennis stars. John Newcombe and AE-1 was the earliest I can remember, then Tracy Austin, Agassi the Rebel, Sharapova the Powershot. Not sure there have been any since, or any for the R line. Of course, tennis stars are a lot more expensive these days, and I doubt Canon's camera division budget is as deep as it once was.

Also, thanks for making me learn a bit more about Fort Sumter. This blog is like going to school sometimes (in a good way) ;)

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