« Paperweights | Main | Snow, Beautiful Snow »

Wednesday, 19 January 2022


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

I'm also not a fan of blaming/shaming unvaccinated folks who get Covid or especially die from it. I also agree that there are major public health failings that are contributing to the ongoing problem.
But, we're also several years into this pandemic. Yes, there is a massive misinformation industry at work (surprise, surprise, by the same folks who work tirelessly to undermine trust in the government, science, and public health initiatives), but it takes two to play the misinformation game. One to spread the lies and one to accept them.
So, while I feel bad whenever an unvaccinated person passes away from Covid, I feel far worse for their coworkers, friends, and family members put at risk because of their choices.

It really is a shame the high degree of what I feel are so many needless deaths.
It really doesn't hit home until you know someone fairly well and something happens to them.
Case in point, two people (they worked in same business) to whom I work closely together on joint projects died 2 weeks ago.
They were not very old relatively speaking.
Both were adamant on not getting vaccinations and boosters. In fact, used to somewhat joke about the whole Covid "epidemic".
I absolutely guarantee to you that both of them, their families and friends wished they had a different perspective on this problem we are facing in America.
I myself just came down with Covid this past Saturday. I feel fine other than a slight runny nose. I only tested myself because someone I knew tested positive. If not for that I wouldn't even have tested myself. I had the vaccination shots and the booster and I certainly feel very good about that because it made a huge difference in my mind.
I would rather get the shots that ALLOW ME TO LIVE NOW vs. worrying about some possible slim side effects in the future.
When you're dead, options are very limited...

"Deaths from COVID-19 in the formerly United States exceeded the highest estimate of..."

Formerly United States, high death rate from a disease that we have an effective, readily available, free vaccine for... um, I wonder if this entry from my state might both prove the ununited part and explain the high death rate part of this statement. Its embarrassing to live in a state that makes the monologues of all the late night hosts with punchlines that would make me laugh if they weren't true.

Florida Health Official Suspended For Encouraging Staff To Get COVID Vaccine

Thank you. In the flood of media articles that we are deluged with, this is the first time I have read this simple human truth which has been sickening me for some time.

"May I just add as a moral issue that I decry the "blaming and shaming" of unvaccinated victims of COVID-19. Those deaths are more a matter of a failure in public health and of deliberate misinformation campaigns than the fault of individuals, and they are just as tragic and every bit as bad a loss for their loved ones as unpreventable deaths."

I find it atrocious and evil that the media seems to glory in the individual deaths of the un-vaccinated to "encourage the others". Our state television is fond of interviewing doctors who assure us those dying in intensive care have not had the jab.

Canada must be taking up our European "Green Pass" system where the un-vaccinated are turned in to social lepers, who cannot partake in most social activities or in some cases they cannot work at their jobs. Or as Macron elegantly said: "we want to deificate on them". Are we trying to outdo China in the course to remove personal freedom?

BTW I am vaccinated, and just today when one of my clients told me he was too busy to get vaccinated, I jovially told him in no uncertain terms to get vaccinated ASAP.

During the US Civil war ....
The population of the Union was 18.5 million. In the Confederacy, the population was listed as 5.5 million free and 3.5 million enslaved. In the Border States there were 2.5 million free inhabitants and 500,000 enslaved people.


The current US population is 332,444,279.

The Civil War killed about 2.8% of the then US population. Covid has so far killed about 0.26% of the US population.

Both numbers are important and horrible. But comparing deaths in the US Civil War to Covid in this way is, at best, misleading. At worst it minimizes the horror and tragedy of the Civil War.

All is is so very sad. I agree, shaming people is not a good strategy but at this point, many, especially health care workers, are fatigued and burnt out over having to support patients who just don't get it.

I'm a vaccinator and have given hundreds of doses of vaccine in Oregon where I live. Initially people were so very grateful. We said that our vaccination center was "the happiest place on earth." Now, with the politics, what should be relatively simple public health policy has become a political minefield.

My daughter lives in New Zealand, which has approximately the same population as Oregon. Currently there are 30 people hospitalized there, Oregon currently has 911. They used a different approach.

I have no desire to start a political battle. I'm a retired health care person. I just want to help solve a problem, on the surface, pretty easy, in reality not so much.

I used to decry the ""blaming and shaming", but now that we understand that the virus can mutate to be vaccine resistant and the overtaxing our healthcare capabilities - I am willing to "blame and shame". Perhaps an unvaxxed has the right to put themselves in danger, they do not have the right put others in danger and deny them healthcare.

Well, many people who have died from Covid did so because they were pig headed and stupid. That is a statement of fact. It is nevertheless a tragedy. An even bigger tragedy are those who died because they are genuinely exempt and were infected by an anti-vaxxer. Of course, many people died in the early stages when there was no vaccine simply because it is an infectious disease, but the "party of death" were massive seeders of falsehoods and misinformation and bear considerable responsibility for much of the insanity. It is amazing that few people ever talk about the deaths. I think that insurance companies should not cover people who are not vaccinated by choice and who have to have emergency care due to Covid. That might get them to focus. If you have a genuine medical reason to not be vaccinated then obviously this rule would not apply. Even today that ass DeSantis is firing people who are attempting to save lives in the name of "freedom".

PPPS to the public service announcement: The liquor authority and retail operation in Québec is the SAQ - “Société d’Alcool du Quebec”, and equivalent to the LCBO (Liquor Control Board of Ontario). The tax revenues are significant, and I approve.


I certainly don't take any joy over seeing people die of the disease, but I do take offense at the unvaccinated who don't seem to understand the burden their choice puts on our society. A couple dear friends and my eldest son fit in this category. My issue with unvaccinated is that they act as a both a pool for the virus as well as a more effective transmission vector (even if asymptomatic), and they end up using substantial hospital resources when they get sick. My father is getting towards his end of life (93), he's spend at least 3 episodes in the ER over the last two years where he couldn't get into a room for at least 2-3 days because the hospital was full of covid patients. Being treated in the hall of an ER at that age (and after suffering a stroke a couple years ago) is just not good.

With covid patients filling up hospitals, other people can't get the care they need. This could be substantially reduced with a vaccinated population. And yeah, I like the way Canada handled that!

The Economist has been working hard at making accurate assessments of COVID-19 deaths. Based on data like excess deaths. Working with scientists and statisticians. For instance 2.3 million in India, vastly higher than official numbers. For the United States they think it's already 1 million.

I sit about in the middle of the Covid arguments between the left and the right - I'm happily fully vaccinated but at the same time believe the other mitigation efforts are, in the end, futile.

But when I see a death total number like that compared to something like the Civil War, I think we need to add some context. The average age of death during the Civil War was probably around 20? The death count represented 2.5% of the entire US population. The average age of death from Covid has hovered north of 80. It's not that the life of an 80 year old is not valued, but I think we do need to consider lost life years when measuring and comparing the impact. A soldier is typically cut down in the prime of life and loses 40-60 years.

In the end, I guess what I'm saying is that maybe we should compare apples to apples, or at least attempt to do so? I think we have been grappling, as a society, with "loaded" data. Data that immediately reveals itself to be an indicator of the writer's position. I believe it is actually part of what is polarizing us further.I wonder if it has always been this way but more transparent now because of social media?

As you chose to broach this topic on TOP, I have to disagree re: those who choose to remain unvaccinated. Yes, a year ago there were the various hurdles you mentioned of availability, misinformation, and uncertainty that impeded the effort to get people vaccinated.

Now, it’s simply willful ignorance on the part of the vast majority who refuse the vaccine. Over 4.6 billion doses have been given worldwide, with nearly 3.9 billion people fully vaccinated. These people have friends, family members, neighbors, and trusted community leaders who have been vaccinated. The side effects of the shots are well known (minor for most), and serious ones are very rare and almost never deadly. The vaccines long ago passed out of being “new and unknown.”

Conversely, the effects of the virus itself, as you soberly note in your post, are also well known, and far too often debilitating if not deadly.

That there continue to be a group of individuals who willingly choose to act as hosts and spreaders of this virus, and willingly provide breeding grounds for new variants, is shocking. Their claims of “freedom” and “rights” are specious at best and dangerously delusional for society.

Two years into this, undermined by the unvaccinated, we may well be living with this virus, and it’s huge toll economically, emotionally, and with a growing body count, for some time yet.

Information is crucial to understanding.

In the UK we record Covid deaths as anyone dying within 28 days of a positive covid test. This is unrealistic as if you applied this criteria to people who died within 28days of vaccination we would think the idea silly as 1,700 people die on average every day.

A Freedom of Information request to the UK Gov
Reference: FOI/2021/3240

has given us the following data over the whole pandemic to Oct 2021:

Dead from Covid with no underlying health conditions - 17,371

AVERAGE age of death from covid - 82.5yrs

Normal UK age of death - Men - 79 / Women - 82.9

Average age of death for Covid is higher than normal life expectancy.

Interestingly, this information is not being discussed in the UK.

Is the same data available for the USA?

There's a comment above that the proportion of Americans who died in the Civil war was about ten times more than the proportion who died of COVID-19 so far, and that that had made the civil war more traumatic for the US. Reductio ad absurdum of that approach to measuring trauma is that if in the stone age a village had 10 people and five got killed in a stone-fight, somehow that was more violent than if a nuclear bomb fell on a nation and killed 0.1% of the nation's people. As someone wise had said long ago, "If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less...".

The comments to this entry are closed.



Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 06/2007