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Friday, 29 May 2020


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"Still, it's frustrating being a Panny fan. The camera that got me into the fold, the GF1—beautiful, solid little brick, not the greatest sensor—was never updated."

Thank you! Exactly how I feel. What the heck happened to the MFT system? I have so many lenses, and not the exact body I want for them. (Not to mention a modern sensor.)

On this side of the pond, in the EU, it's $21 for the grip, and the shipping is free.

Panny-wise, I still have my GX7, and I still love that camera dearly. I found GX8 a bit too big, and GX9 (aka GX7 Mark III) not enough better, I'm waiting for GX7 Mark IV.

I actually wrote Panasonic to complain about not being able to buy a camera without a kit lens. I got a polite reply thanking me for my input. It looks like only their “professional” cameras (G9, GH5) come without lenses. Spend a little extra and get the G9.

Me: Doh!

I had a love/hate relationship with Sony until I decided it was unhealthy and got out. Well, I still have a couple fixed lens Sonys. Now I shoot Nikon and while no brand obliges me by doing exactly what I want, at least I knew what I was in for.
As far as not getting what you want, though, things are looking kind of ugly going forward for APS-C shooters (unless you're a Fuji shooter).

You can in U.K. , eg:
and others.

[This might be a good time to point out that when cutting and pasting links, you can eliminate the question mark and everything that comes after it. Try it:



I got "sold" on the Micro 4/3rd's format when I got a discounted Panny G-3. I then went on the buy the Olympus Pen-F and every prime lens from 12mm to 45mm and for all that, I can never make that damn camera do what I wanted it to, without tons of back-end computer work! I fall back on the Panny G3 all the time and figure I just should have stayed with Panasonic. All the Oly stuff looks nice in a case, tho!

Could Panasonic be your Lucy?

Perhaps you are averse to used but theres KEH and of course B&H,,, then Ebay!

Can the seller take the lens when you buy it? Are they packaged separately? They can sell it as new OEM or something like that. Though I imagine the lens isn't worth much to them and then everyone would want to do that.

You can get them used as a body only. And as far as the GX8, it's still a very good camera, with a much better viewfinder. I had the GX9 and now I have two more GX8's. Viewfinder, multi-angle finder, better ergonomics, bigger batter too. Oh, did I mention a much better viewfinder? There is no difference in image quality. None. Zero. Unless you're a pixel peeper, then there's always a difference, even if there isn't.

Pentax, oh Pentax: why isn’t there a 28mm lens (or "ideal" 42mm on aps-c) in your stable any more? AAUGH! And this is not something recent, there hasn’t been one available for decades. More AAUGH!

They wouldn’t need to do any r&d, because they already have invented the perfect lens… in 1975. Jaw-dropping resolution, superb flare resistance, beautiful colours, very good correction for c.a., distortion free and pretty decent bokeh (for a wide angle lens). What more can you want?
Yes, auto-focus! (And maybe a few extra aperture blades and the latest coatings). In all, it should be pretty easy to make all pentaxians happy. Maybe even attract a few new customers.

But that’s just silly old me; wishing & waiting.

If you are interested: here you can find a short review and here a fickr group.

Copyediting note: Schulz, not Schultz.

What happened with your G9? No bond?

It's only tough if one has gas. I'm still living quite well with my LX7 and GX85, along with the two kit lenses that came with the GX85.

I had a Pentax K-3, which I liked a lot as a carry-always camera, in my case paired with the 50-135 zoom; great lens. Then one day a San Disk card breaks /inside/ of the slot, and I can't get it out. Repair estimates to get it out are way more than the cost of the camera, so I think, I'll just wait for the next Pentax APS-C camera (my 50-135mm wouldn't be great on a K-1, which in turn is a heavier body for something always in the bag.)

But of course, the K-3 didn't really get updated beyond a refresh. Every now and then I'd look at refurbs and used K-3 ii bodies, but that seemed foolish if something was coming up. Other, lesser iterations of the Pentax APS-C cameras have seemed a step back from the feature set I enjoyed in my K-3.

In the end I just got something very different to carry around, and the Pentax lenses sit unused, without a body.

I relate to your pain on the Panny front.

Two years ago I bought the Panasonic GX9 and sold my GX85. I use the GX9 with the DG Vario-Elmar 100-400mm for birds and dragonflies. But what to do with that Vario 12-60mm ƒ/3.5-5.6 lens which I didn't want? I sold it, and bought the Vario-Elmarit 12-60mm ƒ/2.8-4 zoom. Now I don't use it. I fancy it is too sharp! So, welcome me to your club.

Definitely Pentax. I never could get the K1 with available lenses dialed in to be a reliable autofocusing device. I would either have to use awkward, clunky live view, or manual focus on a tripod if I wanted "for sure" focusing. Extremely frustrating, because otherwise I really like it, and I want to use it. Still got many nice images out of it, but gradually stopped using it very often because of the frustration. In addition, the sloooow updating of their lens catalog is just something you have to accept. Surprisingly, they are still chugging along with new releases, and I do hope they stay afloat. I think a Pentax/Ricoh version of a Fuji style mirrorless would be pretty awesome, but that's not likely it seems.

Thanks for the tip Mike, sorry about polluting the thread. Some software seems to do that automatically :(.

You can get a GX9 on amazon, body only, for the same price as one with a 12-60 lumix/leica zoom, $799.00 Weird. I can recommend the 12-60 as it is permanently fixed onto my G9. It is sort of a big 12-35. The 12-35 is a scootch sharper but not enough to make a difference to most photography. And the 12-35 is my all time favorite zoom lens.

Hey Chuck (I mean Mike),
Don’t feel alone. I think that any and all fans of particular brands feel your pain at times. It could be worse: as a lifelong Pentax shooter, it’s a permanent condition!

Ooops, the 12-60 on that deal is not the one I have. Mine is the Leica branded 12-60 f/2/8-f/4.0 lens. I cannot say how good or bad that lens is.

In january I bought a GX9 to replace my aging GX7. In Italy it was available as a body-only camera but I bought it with the tiny 12-32 mm lens. I already had the 14-45 but that new lens is a jewel: the camera with that lens is almost pocketable and optically it is rather good. The older lens is optically better but this one is really tiny and that is useful sometimes.
The 12-32 is cheap if you buy it with the camera so I recommend to buy it and to keep it.
The GX9 is a joy: the sensor is visibly better than the one in the GX7 and the camera looks like it has been designed by photographers, not by engineers. What I mean is that it is "transparent" when I use it: the commands are where they should be to make it easy to take photographs.
P.S. you linked the wrong lens: I have the 14mm and I like it, but I know that you were talking about the 20mm.

[Thanks! Fixed now. I'm making a lot of mistakes today. --Mike]

Come over to Olympus. Since I shoot on the street, sidewalks, and in coffeehouses, I wanted a small, discreet camera. After five years shooting with the Oly M5 MkII, I recently updated to the Oly M5 MkIII. I came from Panasonic. I was a very early adopter of micro 4/3rds with Pansonics G1, G3, and G5. So, I have a few Panasonic lenses, the one I still use the most is their 20mm pancake.
Come on over to the Oly bodies. Maybe an M1 MkIII would suit you better than the M5 series.

I got a sense that the problem is not being unable to purchase GX9 without a lens. The problem is that all m4/3 cameras have gone up in price. GX9 with a lens is still cheaper than the ancient Olympus PEN-F or the newer Olympus E-M5 Mk III without lenses.
Moreover, it is never clear how much improvements you get going from GX8 to GX9.
I think the reality is that in a shrinking camera market, Panasonic and Olympus have to move to more premium and pricier products to survive. So for consumers, we will be dealing with higher prices and more limited options. I personally went from GF1 to E-P5 to E-M5 Mk III so I feel your pain. Olympus user interface is just a mess compared to Panasonic.

What a bout a second hand GX9?

I just picked up an ‘excellent plus’ GF1 from KEH for 82 bucks. A camera that was selling for over $1000 new when Panasonic couldn’t keep up with demand back in 2009. Ah, the joys of being a decade or so behind the times. It’s still a great camera and fills most of my needs for 11x14” prints or smaller.

I had the GX9 (bought used, body only) and never really liked the viewfinder. It got sold after I picked up a used GX8. The only thing I really miss from the GX9 is the L. Monochrome D simulation. Otherwise, I find the GX8 a much better camera and it’s weather sealed, which the GX9 isn’t.

As I wrote to Kurt Tuck last night, I was glad to see him out and about with his GX8. I still often use mine, which replaced a GX7, and am still having a love affair with it with a 14-140ii mostly glued to it. In my view, as John Camp said above, there is nothing wrong with a GX8. Well, actually there is one thing, it is not the best place to mount the P/L 100-400, which is why I added a G9 as the perfect place for that lens as well as the 35-100 f/2.8, setting up another long-running love affair.

What John Camp said. I have two GX8's and no inclination to buy another camera any time soon. Maybe if there were a new M4/3 sensor with the wonderful qualities of the one in the GX8 but with a lot more pixels (30mp at the minimum) I might consider a new camera...but it would have to be pretty much the same as the GX8 otherwise.

There are a bunch for sale (body only) from Amazon, onestop digital, Toby's , BandC and several new ones on eBay.

“When that died..”
Just about sums up why to this day, after two decades of digital progress, I just cannot warm up to any A N Y! Digital camera. Still essentially disposable appliances.

AAUGH! 🏈😁🦶

I've felt ok with my m43 gear because a) funds are tight and 2) every step forward includes a regressive slide. I like the GX7 ergonomics especially af/mf switch and 1/8k max shutter. Gx85 has many improvement but no focus switch, GX9 has the switch but added a 3rd setting to it, and changed other items like EV comp. As you say, auugh!

You probably recall the Peanuts strip with the punchline "Ggogles".. :√)

I was pretty much wedded to Nikon gear for about 20 years. My ARGH! was waiting for as long as their DX (APSC) format existed in the hope of a wide angle prime (28 or 24mm-e, f/2 or 2.8, say). Nothing exotic. Not an unreasonable wish, a simple need, pretty easy for Nikon engineers, I supposed, but apparently it was never to be.

Eventually quit waiting and now into the Olympus flavor of micro-4/3, where I'm spoilt for choice and not looking back. Current muse is the PanaLeica 15mm f/1.7. It's a gem.

I still have the G1 that got me into the system and away from heavy DSLR things. Bought new, with the 14-45mm of course.

Loved it so much that I upgraded to the G3. I hacked it to upgrade its video capabilities and upgrade it did, but autofocus became unreliable. I gave it to a friend that undid the hack and almost got it to autofocus. Almost.

As of late I’m heavily into street photography, needed something even more inconspicuous and wanted the Pana 14mm lens, so I bought it used. It came with a little GF3 attached. I thought I would sell it to offset part of the cost -typical GAS denial - but I tried it and surprisingly it was really what I needed: Small, silent, good enough files.

Then I bought a shiny new G7, with, yes, the standard zoom attached: The camera sold for the same price with or without lens, so... It was ment to hand the "serious" pictures.

I probably should have sold the G1, but for the amount I would get, it isn’t reallly worth it, or so I think everytime I plan to do it.

Three or four years ago, I also felt like upgrading my GF3, so I went for the GF6. I decided to keep the GF3 because you know, it isn’t worth that much second hand, so why sell it? I can’t really bond with the GF6, although it’s a much better camera, so who knows, I may have to sell it. Or not, it isn't worth that much, actually.

Then I had to do a documentary for a filmaker friend, and decided I needed two bodies for the interviews so that I could have different angles to edit. I bought a G6 which was good enough for the job. Even used, it came with the zoom in question and it was really good. And a joy to use: after working with huge video cameras that need crews and lights and whatever and hours of prep and rig, setting up the two toys with cheap tripods and a couple of good mics was a revelation. I still would have it but a slick bastard stole it from under my nose while packing after shooting an interview, with the Panasonic 25mm 1.4 and a microphone attached.

As if I didn’t have enough standard zooms, I read about the pancake one and decided it may come handy so I bought one. I don’t really like it. Now I have 4 zooms in the same range, great for doing useless youtube comparative tests or pixel peeping. I definitely will sell them. Or not, they aren’t worth that much…

What I find absolutely obnoxius is the number of chargers and batteries I have accumulated. I have six different chargers and four different battery types to deal with. And that is my only gripe. One battery to feed them all, that would be really something.

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