Nerd vs. Geeks

[This is the last of the old posts I had loaded and ready to go during my recovery—it's from 2011. But since I can now work again, I've opened the Comments for this one. —Mike the Ed.]

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I had an LOL moment last night watching Jimmy Fallon [a late-night talk show, for y'all in different countries]. Ex-gangsta-rapper and "Law and Order" detective Ice-T was on TV (it was broadcast here, anyway—I don't watch often enough to know whether it was a rerun or not) with his extravagant wife Coco, and he pointed out that there's a big difference between a nerd and a geek. Given any little area of enthusiasm, a nerd is a guy who knows all about it—and likes to talk about it and argue about it—and a geek is a guy who likes to do it. Whatever "it" is.

So I'm a darkroom geek but a Miata nerd. (Makin' me laugh again*.)

Seems like a useful distinction to me. When I worked at the model railroad magazine, there was reader—famous among the staff—who would write highly detailed, deeply knowledgable 10-page letters about the magazine's layout articles, critiquing the author's ideas and suggesting improvements. They were so good the Editor would post them on the office bulletin board. But despite repeated attempts, the Editor couldn't get the guy to actually write an article for the magazine.

So he was a model-railroading-magazine nerd, then.

I remember back when I occasionally participated in the often contentious forums of a certain high profile British digital camera review site. I got into it once with a guy who was evangelical about a certain brand of high-end professional DSLR and outspokenly critical of the competing brand's flagship model. (I forget whether he loved C and hated N, or loved N and hated C...not that it really matters.) When I dug into it, it turned out that the fellow was a teenager who didn't own a nice DSLR at all.

A goal for him to aspire to: geekhood!

—Time-Traveling Mike, from 2011

*This was back when I was building another darkroom and hadn't yet bought my used 2001 Miata, which I had for three years before selling it to TOP reader Larry G. from New Hampshire, who let me drive it again on his visit to New York! What a pleasure.

Note: Please don't take the above too seriously. Or, god forbid, personally. I know the two terms under discussion are mildly pejorative; I just thought it was funny.

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[Comments from 2011:]

Featured Comment by MHV: "The truth of the Internet Age is that it has essentially enabled ALL of us to become geek/nerds of something in minutes. We spend more time learning about arcane matter than ever simply because we can. The problem is that we end up missing on what made our subjects of obsession obsessive at all: rarity. In the '60s, being a film buff essentially meant 1) living in Paris and 2) going to the Cinémathèque every other day. Here's a classic essay on post-rarity geekhood/nerdiness." [By the comedian Patton Oswalt. And an excellent essay, too. —MJ.]

Featured Comment by John Wilson: "I think he's wrong about the definitions. This is what Geeks believe the definitions to be:

Scott Lamb's Nerd Venn Diagram, from Buzzfeed

Mike replies: Wouldn't it be really nerdy to argue about the competing definitions of "nerd"?

Ctein replies: "Dear Mike, That would be 'nerd geeking.' helpfully yours, Ctein."

John Wilson replies: "Mike, I'm too busy being a nerd to argue about the definition at any length :-) ."

Featured Comment by Dave Burns: "Re your point of debating the definition, there's an alternate Venn diagram from xkcd (make sure to hover over the image for the tooltip comment)."

Featured Comment by Steve Jacob: "Interesting entymologies for some of these terms:

Dweeb: 1980s West Coast slang acronym for Dim-Witted Eastern-Educated Boor (usually with regard to Ivy League grads).

Nerd: Actually started as 'knurd' which is the opposite of drunk, as applied to students who don't know how to party, as supposedly coined in the 1940s at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York.

Geek: Originally applied to carnival performers who could do weird things with their bodies—came to apply to those who could do equally weird things with computers.

Dork: A term actually coined by geeks to refer to those of lesser ability, supposedly derived from a breed of chicken (a Dorking) which had an extra toe on each foot."

[Comments from 2019:]

Peggy C.: "I see no women in this conversation so let me chime in. Being the go-to computer and camera tech person for family and friends, I prefer to be called Guru. Example. My brother needed to replace his cellphone. He asked me to do the research. He then took me with him to buy his new phone. We get to the store and the salesman begins to tell us the deals. My brother speaks up and says, 'I brought my sister with me as she knows all the tech details. She's my tech geek.' I looked him straight in the eye and said, 'That's MS. Tech Guru to you.' The saleswoman at the next desk over applauded. So, 'Ms. Guru' is now how I am known."

Mike replies: Perfect.

JohnMFlores: "I hate both of those terms and how they are commonly used since they both perpetuate the derision of knowledge. We need more respect and admiration for intelligence and less for empty celebrity."

Comments

[scott kirkpatrick]

A social law to which I was exposed by a friend running teen trips in the summer: Every group must have a dork assigned. It is the task of the second least-favored person in the group to name the dork and make his/her life appropriately uncomfortable.

[Kenneth Tanaka]

John Wilson’s Venn diagram of the topic was terrific. Certainly t-shirtable. (The ultimate measure of “terrific” these days.)

[Richard Parkin]

Did someone say that with the InterWeb everyone can be nerdy for fifteen minutes? Maybe I’ve misremembered, I’ll have to google it ... ;-)

[c.d.embrey]

On the internet, no even another dog, knows you're a dog with OCD.

[Jimmy Reina]

Several years ago, self proclaimed geek Roger Cicala at Lens Rentals sponsored a Photo Geek contest. One of my favorites was a two foot long assemblage of homemade extension tubes that the maker used to get closer to......
a lens.
It was hilarious.
This is a link to the reporting page, but it appears that the "product photos" have been taken down-
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/11/photo-geek-contest-2013-winners/

[Bill Poole]

As someone who was born with six toes on each foot--a condition known as polydactylism--I was thrown by Steve Jacobs etymology for "dork"--although I understand he is only the reporter, and I bear him no ill will. And to answer the obvious question, yes, the extra digits were surgically removed when I was an infant. The surgeons did muff the right foot, leaving a large bone spur, which has been inconvenient over the years and probably makes me at least part dork.

[I should specify--every TOP reader is above average, and none are dorks, dweebs, nerds or geeks. So never fear! --Mike]

[John Camp]

Everything worth doing has first been done by a geek. The big mistake made by many is to see a distinction between, say, geeks and jocks. Jocks are just geeks with a different passion -- but anyone who can shoot 500 baskets a day or make 500 practice putts is a geek, and when you talk to a serious, high-level jock, it's astonishing how intellectually involved they are with their subject matter. The same is true with serious artists of all kinds, engineers, etc. IMHO.

[c.d.embrey]

On 12-27-10, Patton Oswalt said: We're on the brink of Etewaf: Everything That Ever Was—Available Forever.

Patton is a little late to the party. The internet is forever is a long known truism. By 2010 many young mothers had already been asked by their kids, mom is that you? In a couple of generations, grand-kids will be telling grandma wow, you were sure were hot, when you were my age.

[Michael Perini]

Wasn't a Geek originally a carnival side show person who bit the heads off live chickens?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_show

[Sharon]

I have no geek/nerd comments but wanted to tell you I enjoyed your article on Diane Arbus. Thanks! This whole series was great.

Sharon

[Thank you Sharon! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I have always wanted to do more of those articles on photos, but they take a fair bit longer than a day. It's not so much the writing that's time consuming, as knowing what to say. The one called "The Concerned Photographer" was the only one I wrote in a single day, and I think it shows. --Mike]

[Trevor Johnson]

A guru?

[David Dyer-Bennet]

I thought geeks bit the heads off chickens?

But currently I don't think there's really any consistent distinction maintained. At least within the parts of the science fiction, computer, and photographic communities I know.

[Mike Ferron]

South center in the illustration is a very interesting point. One could get down on all fours and have a different limb in Geek, Nerd, Dork and Obsession all at the same time. Hmmm.

[Nature Lover]

"In a couple of generations, grand-kids will be telling grandma wow, you were sure were hot, when you were my age."

Older than Michael I am. My now 27 year old grandson marveled at the picture on the living room table of a more svelte and handsome couple on the first iteration of 'The Love Boat' aka 'The Sun Princess' taken in 1986 while he lived with us around age 7 before Y2K. "Ninny, who is that hot girl with Bopbop??"

I have not yet scanned that photo for my gift autobiography to the kids and grandkids or I'd link it here. It needs to be out there...

[Mike Plews]

So is it possible to be a Ferrari nerd and a 270,000 mile Honda CRV geek or are economics not a factor?.

[Ned Bunnell]

With technology becoming so integral to our lives today, I’d much rather be considered a Nerd or Geek versus a Luddite.

[c.d.embrey]

Ned said: With technology becoming so integral to our lives today, I’d much rather be considered a Nerd or Geek versus a Luddite.

Best comment I've read in ages! The bleeding edge, is a great place to live.

Thanks, again, Mr Bunnell for the tip on Drakroom https://apps.apple.com/us/app/darkroom-photo-editor/id953286746