Seven Featured Comments for Moose's 'Counterpoint'

[Yr. Hmbl. Ed. has been moderately messed up in the comment moderation. So that you don't miss them, here are seven "Featured Comments" from the post I SNAFU'd this week, "One Good Book: Guest Counterpoint" written by Moose. —Yr. Hmbl. Ed.]

 

Geoff Wittig: "Yes! Thanks for saying it, Moose. John Szarkowski was immensely influential, and no doubt he was extremely knowledgeable and erudite on the subject of visual art. Yet his opinion imposed a kind of stylistic straightjacket on what was considered acceptable art photography, a modernist view quite similar in my mind to the vision Leo Castelli imposed on painting. Many of the photographers Szarkowski embraced (Gary Winogrand and Diane Arbus come to mind) are pure nails-on-a-chalkboard to me, ostentatiously rejecting traditional aesthetic notions for the shock of the new. "

David Raboin: Looking at Photographs has been a favorite of mine for years and my wife recently bought me a copy of Szarkowski's Atget book. I don't believe either book is about the photographs they contain so much as they're about how to think about photographs and photography. Szarkowski is the antidote for the 'great capture' and 'stunning!' crowd. He's so careful, thoughtful, and educated. Szarkowski decodes the photographer's intentions and puts everything into historical context. He's my dream audience.

"In his Atget book, there is a beautiful paragraph about Atget's decision to point his camera into the sun where Szarkowski discusses the struggles of artists across all mediums to depict the feel of looking into the sun. If I ever received a comment like that on Instagram I think I would cry."

JOHN GILLOOLY: "I completely agree with Moose's take. I bought that book years ago after it was recommended here and just did not connect with it at all."

David Comdico: "Looking at Photographs is a great book. I had to pick up my copy to re-read the text as the essay here seemed woefully inaccurate. To begin, Szarkowski doesn't say 'there are only three ways of seeing the physical world.' He says that there are three ways of accepting the evidence of one's senses. There is a difference between the two, and not noticing this from a critical perspective is sort of...well, similar to not accepting the evidence of your senses.

"For Szarkowski, the nature of photography is that it is evidentiary. His text here is highly ironic (Szarkowski here falling into the humorist camp). He says, 'The consistent flaw in the system [i.e., photography] has been that it has recorded the wrong facts: not what we knew was there but what has appeared to be there.' Every bad or inept photo can be said to result from this 'flaw'— the camera recorded the wrong facts and instead of showing us what we knew was there, it captured what appeared instead.

"As the popular saying goes, there is no one easier to fool than yourself. The real dangerous bias we must confront is confirmation bias. Szarkowski puts it thusly: 'Faced with a contradiction between what he sees and what he reads, the average person will ignore what he sees.'

"So trusting my senses, I find it trite and unconvincing to say that Erwitt's photo is a putative indictment of the museum, in that it just houses old treasures (which is how Szarkowski’s makes his point, albeit very ironically). Similarly, Looking at Photographs isn't a mere vault of musty old photos. As a user of Instagram, I've seen variations of these photos thousands of times: DeCarava's man holding a briefcase, Friedlander's surreal refractions, Arbus' trenchant view of the proto-MAGA jingoist.

"Szarkowski is not above reproach (Janet Malcom's criticism is hard-hitting), but he is not only historically important, he is an astute and terrific writer. One of the few. Most writing on photography is bad; less criticism than narrative, or, worse, confused theory. Clarity and insight is more valuable than polarizing approbation or repudiation.

"Finally, the insight Szarkowski provides here is one that we need to take to heart. Ours is a culture in which we are constantly told to not trust our 'lying eyes.' Mere appearance has been de-legitimized. And so we have instead a photographic culture predicated on graphical manipulation, a broken financial and political system that insists it is the best ever devised, and an increasingly dangerous environmental calamity that we are told isn’t happening. Those that can see the reality peeking behind these fictions are indeed saints, simpletons, and humorists. Szarkowski’s essay on 'Venice, 1965' is not only astute but prescient."

Mark Roberts: "Although it's tangential to the main point of Moose's piece I can testify to the fact that sentiment expressed in the Russell Miller quotation is wrong: I teach college students, all of whom have grown up in a world in which color photography was invented first as far as they're concerned—it's the original, default way of shooting for anyone raised on digital—and making good monochrome photographs is always one of the most popular topics."

Eric Perlberg: "I agree with Moose's general argument. I personally have nothing against and can appreciate mid-20th-century photography for what it was, but in terms of interesting photographic art things have moved on. One of the historic characteristics of art (Art?) is that its in a state of constant renewal; what was once groundbreaking becomes part of the accepted canon, comfortable, familiar, but no longer pushing the envelope or making one rethink one's aesthetics. Such was Szarkowski pushing boundaries when he publicised, defined and explained a then-new generation of photographers.

"Today the photography he supported is comfortably classic, like Mahler's First Symphony, which was hissed and booed at its early performances but which now fills music halls worldwide, or Elvis's early music which shocked a Doris-Day-music-buying public with his wild guitar and shaking hips. Now Elvis comfortably lives on.

"Leaving aside the popularisation of mediocre photography due to smartphones and online galleries there are a plethora of excellent photographic artists pushing the boundaries of the medium (and they're often on Istagram too). Unfortunately (for me) these photographic artists are almost never mentioned or referenced on TOP or by its readership. It's an oversight I can personally live with due to Mike's otherwise thoughtful and humane writing style across a wide variety of subjects. But I personally cringe a bit when mid-20th-century photographers are held up as the pinnacle of the field."

Bob F.: "Couldn't resist commenting on the 'three-minute rule.' When I was a disk jockey on a local radio station (the late, not lamented KKJO in St. Joseph, Missouri) in the mid '60s, Marty Robbins' 'El Paso' was an essential part of the playlist because it was four minutes, 37 seconds long, allowing us to make it to the toilet and back while the record was playing, while the 'three minute' records didn't. I've always thought this had a lot to do with the song's great success."

[I wonder if from now on I should just publish comments? You'll are so interesting maybe you don't need me!  :-)  (Moose's post started life as a long comment.)  —Mike the Ed.]

(Posted by) Mike

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Featured Comments from:

Ernest Zarate: "Moose seems to have two main complaints with the book in question, Looking at Photographs. First, he is not a fan of John Szarkowski’s writing. Second, the photographs suffer two fatal flaws: they are old and they are not in color.

"I happen to be in the same camp as our esteemed editor—I think the book is an important volume in my library and I encourage my photo students to seek it out. Szarkowski has written 100 brief, accessible, and sophisticated mini-essays that not only discuss the photograph on the opposite page, but also shed light on the complete history, development, joys and surprises, and cultural context of the art of photography. To do this using only 100 photographs selected from the thousands of photographs in MOMAS’s vault is impressive, in my opinion. To do all that to the level of excellence Szarkowki has is astounding. It is a tour de force.

"The current trend of writing on photography (and, Lord help us all, video blogging!) is dry, self-important, twisted and confused. I am grateful for the oasis Mike provides with TOP. (Note: I would say that Mike is very generous in taking into consideration the ideas and suggestions of his readers. If there are contemporary photographers and/or writers a reader like Eric would like to see on TOP, I’m sure they will get due consideration.)

"But, hey, to each their own. Some like Szarkowski, some don’t. I do think it’s a bit disingenuous to criticize a book published in 1973 for not having more current photographs in it, though. And to quote Szarkowki from the book’s Introduction, 'The future of this beautiful, universally practiced, little-known art will be determined by young and unborn photographers, who will decide how best to build on their rich and ambiguous tradition. A small part of that tradition is reproduced on the following pages.' Hardly the sentiment of a dictator of aesthetics.

"The other issue, of damning the photographs because they’re old and not in color, I certainly do take issue with. If one was to follow this 'logic,' then any work of creative effort older than, what, 50 years (the age of the last photograph in the book) must be tossed into the garbage? Art has a shelf life? And if it’s not in technicolor then it has never had any value at all? A photograph is damned because it was made using, horror of horrors, monochrome materials?!? And analog materials at that?!?

"I guess the good news is that museums the world over, once they dump their 'old' art into the nearest dumpster will have ample room to start collecting and storing all the au courant digital work.

"In closing I’ll paraphrase a rather famous writer: 'Moose doth protest too much, methinks.'"

Comments

[MikeR]

Look at it this way : TOP is your oyster, and you provide the irritant, resulting in the pearls of comments. Do both.

[Speed]

Mike wrote, "I wonder if from now on I should just publish comments?"

Or at least change the name to The Online Photographers.

I know that sometimes editing the comments is a slog but it adds a lot to TOP.

[Rob Campbell]

[I wonder if from now on I should just publish comments? You'll are so interesting maybe you don't need me! :-) (Moose's post started life as a long comment.) —Mike the Ed.]

You gotta be joking, right, smiley notwithstanding?

Everything needs a driver; driverless cars are not for me and I imagine not for many other people either unless they (the people) are incapacitated in some manner.

Anyway, as for the responses above, while well-presented and written, they are all, in the end, nothing more than subjective takes, which I can perform quite ably for myself. This site needs your input, in exactly the same way that Leicaphilia needs its own head honcho, Tim. It's why I read both of you: your views interest me, as do the conversations that arise - when they are not gear-centric things which I usually don't read with any great interest, not being a GAS addict.

Don't fix what ain't broke!

[Stan B.]

Props to Eric Perlberg. Every time I hear complaints and lamentations about Eggleston, followed by the inevitable longing for Ansel, I start to wondering anew when someone is finally gonna put their foot down about those wretched long haired Beatles...

[Michael]

May I compliment the members whose comments are featured above,these are truly first rate and a joy to read, we are really fortunate to have contributors of such quality on this site,this is due in no small measure to Mike whose tireless work in presenting and moderating has led to a first rate site.
Mike.

[Chip McDaniel]

Some comments here lament that there are many great, but TOP-ignored, photographers pushing the boundaries today. For the benefit of we non-cognoscenti, how about throwing out a few names and where they can be seen, either in museums or galleries or online? I've been generally pleased with Mikes's recommendations and confess that Lee Friedlander is my favorite photographer, despite the burden that he carries of having worked largely in the 20th century. But some of us old farts are also open to new things. Let us in on the secrets.

[Paul Braverman]

Seems to me that Szarkowski is on trial for having an opinion. Did he have one? Sure. As the leading curator at MoMA, that opinion carried a lot of weight. But as long as a human being occupies that position, that person is going to like some things and dislike others. Anyone is free to disagree; that’s what made this country great. (Again?)

[Rob Campbell]

"Oh! What Fun We Had
Gavin Watson

This intimate selection of photographs by Gavin Watson disrupts the notion of skinheads and council estate residents as problematic figures in an almost endearing manner while still preserving the subversive character of the cult of youth. Go to Oh! What Fun We Had"

The above is a from publicity e-mail to me from Damiani, the Italian publisher.

If ever there was a need, an incentive not to buy books, this must be it!

What kind of life requires this as part of its library?