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Sunday, 07 February 2016

Comments

To be honest, I am disappointed, No IBIS, No Touchscreen, No Additional Control Dial, No New Buttons bar one switch, No new APS size lenses. I have an A7RII but my travel camera is an A6000. The A6300 looks good for video and sports photographers but for general photography I see little gain.

But it has a touch screen which I miss on my A7r2.

[Does it? I don't think it does. --Mike]

IBIS - in camera. Water and dust resistant body and lenses. ISO and shutter speed dials. Aperture detentes on the lenses. 1 inch or larger sensor. Bright viewfinder and a simple menu system. Coat-pocketable please.
I don't see anything out there like that sadly.

My God! I thought I'd accidentally clicked on DPR! Personally don't care if AF speeds get fractions of milliseconds faster or it does not allow handheld shots of a black cat at night in a coal bunker.

I'm more worried about been desensitized by all of the excuses I read for NOT taking pictures - oooh no touchscreen, oooh "slow" AF, too retro, too big, too small, DLSR is SO last century, 16fps! NOT fast enough...etc.

All of this procrastinating for perfection makes me feel that the craft is getting lost in the technology. The contemporary cameras we are offered will never be all things to all people, for sure, but they are amazingly capable.

So am I disappointing by the A6300? No. If one ever landed in my hands I'd be more excited by it's limitations as then I would enjoy the creatively to try and get around them.

But then the reverse can be true too - when, as a young and impressionable photographer, I was handed a Nikon F2 for an assignment it was my limitation that was on my mind!

Talking of tripods ... ;-)

Same here. I am a full frame Sony shooter (A7r), and a small A6something body would be a nice addition.

But the Sony Aps-c lineup sorely lacks two things to make me ditch my m4/3 (I went the m4/3 route after ditching my Nex 7):

- IBIS
- high quality but relatively (for the format) small and reasonably priced lenses (see Olympus and Panasonic)

Until they fill these two gaps I will stick to m4/3 for handheld stuff and to Sony FF with Contax manual focus glass for tripod mounted images.

Maybe it"s due to the geographical situation (I live in Germany, with really short days in winter a.k.a half of the year), IBIS is the feature I treasure most in my cameras, and I wouldn't buy one without it. Especially when creating/taking pictures on a daily basis, additionally to the bread job, times with dwindling light are more the rule than the exception, but thanks to IBIS I really can make best use of them.

But given that the majority of these cameras is bought for (summer-) holidays, Sony's decision to omit it from the A6300 becomes understandable. Probably most people will use it exclusively with the optically stabilized kit zoom anyhow, so why provide something that 90% of the buyers might never want to use?

As I wrote on the blog called "Mirrorless Rumours" on the release of the a6300...

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/and-at-last-we-got-it-sony-announces-the-a6300-and-three-new-super-fe-lenses/

"I think I will leave it for a week and go for the A6400..."

Just for devilment really, I don't even like Sony cameras...

But the advice is good Mike...

I am avidly waiting for a new production Leica that is modelled on the celebratory "M60 of 2014", I have heard that one is coming in February. But I don't suppose it will be precisely what I am waiting for, which may never come.

The revolution is over, its now just gentle evolution. Sony is clearly concentrating on the A7 series. A lot of long awaited cameras are set to under impress. Out with a bang, away with a whisper.
I am still waiting for a genuinely better image quality jump to my EM5 mk1 cameras!

So am I. Not into buying but sort of very expected of this.

I thought, wrongly, that IBIS would have been integrated everywhere in few years. Looks like such a no-brainer. And I'm sure, with present high speed processors, it can interact with the OIS when present to improve further the performances. I suspect they think that the appeal to the average customer is just not large enough to pay for the small extra cost of the component. But, take as example the Fuji XE1, which I bought, as most people did, with the kit zoom that included OIS. Would the set have been more expensive with IBIS instead of OIS? I doubt, and it would have been a much better choice.

It's all a plot to make sure that the A7 series looks better than ever...

If IBIS is really important to you, and with two prosthetic legs it is to me, then go for one of the Olympus cameras, IBIS is a wonderful thing...

Is it an irrational thing, Mike? After all, the XF Fujinon lenses have OIS built into them (most of them, I think).

[Not most. A few do. --Mike]

I agree, in my view, IBIS is something very valuable for any camera.

Being a Fuji shooter, I was sure I would buy the X-Pro2, but I got a used Olympus E-M5 with the Panasonic 20/1.7 some months ago and the results I could get with the 5-axis IBIS blew me away, so I started wishing the new Fuji camera would have some sort of IBIS, of course in the end it did not.
I just stopped wishing for something that doesn't exist and sold my Oly and X-Pro1 to get a used mint+ A7II. It may not give me the pleasure I can have with the Fuji, but in terms of specs it fullfills everything I wanted.

I got a second-hand X-E2 too, I just couldn't leave Fuji, their cameras and lenses are just amazing. By the way, the X-E2 may be the best Fuji deal of the moment, with the new firmware it is like having a new camera.

Having used an Olympus E-M5 since 2012, almost solely with fast-ish prime lenses, there are now pretty much two things any camera system I'd consider needs to offer:

1) The possibility of shooting and seeing/framing in 5:4 or 4:3 aspect ratios

2) Image stabilization. Preferably in camera, but at the very least in whatever lens I'd pick to be my go-to lens.

Oh I hear you.
I love my Olympus system. So big now. But occasionally my gaze stray to "other women" who are mighty fine. Such big and beautiful eyes. Sony... Fuji... Canikon...
[Skkrrrrreeeaaachtc] Oops, forgot: no IBIS.

It'l like looking at beautiful cars until you remember that these models have not steering wheels.

I'm with you Mike. I had also wished for two top dials. I see no reason on-off couldn't be moved and that the ring around the shutter could not have become a control dial like on my EM-1. But I especially wanted the IBIS.

I hadn't really looked forward tomthe a6000 sucessor, because I assumed it would lack two things:
1. IBIS
2. A fast, 35mm-e prime that costs less than $550 to put on it.

So, I was pleasantly surprised to find a camera that might lend itself to the kind of sports shooting I will likely do in the next two years. I assumed that I'd have to buy a consumer level dslr and hope that the focus micro adjustment was going to be adequate. But 8fps that the EVF can keep up with, tons of selectable focus points across the frame, sounds like a no-compromise solution to me. This is a great camera for turning parent phototographers into hobbyists.

Also, the 4k video sounds like something fun to play with. 60fps of 8mp good quality jpegs - wouldn't that have been exciting back in 2008? And there is some extra exposure latitude in there, if I understand what log mode is. It's a golden age for taking pictures. It might be a golden opportunity for photography.

If you shoot Fuji, you're accustomed to missing IBIS!

There was also a much-needed improvement to viewfinder resolution. I'm not sure the A6300 upgrade will propel a6000 users to part with cash, but there are many Nex-7 users (like me) who will probably upgrade to get the better focus performance. The sensor hasn't been rated by DXOMARK yet, but if the high ISO noise performance is significantly better than the Nex-7, then an upgrade will be a no brainer.

There were two rumors that didn't come to fruition: IBIS and 28 megapixels. The former would have added weight and cost, so I'm not sure I'm sad about not having it. The latter would have been a waste - the lenses for the a6300 can't resolve the 24 megapixel sensor, so any more would have been a waste.

I didn't even know cameras came with a bird!
And an Egyptian one to boot!
Go figure!

Mi dos pesos.

Last time I checked, your Fuji X-T1 doesn't have IBIS either, so...?

[That's why I miss it!

...And why I keep gazing longingly at the A7 series. --Mike]

I brought the GX7 on the count of IBIS. Truth be told, it isn't nearly as effective as the Olympus iterations. They really must have their stuff together. I still love my GX7.

Reminds me of how I thought about girlfriends as a young man: Fantasy outshone reality. I didn't wise up until around age 30.

It's taken a lot longer to wise up about cameras.

To be honest I see Sony bodies as vehicles for their sensors. They have the best sensors on the market (with samsung apparently, but who's exiting the market...), but sony is having a hard time designing all that's around that sensor. I still have my Nex 7, of which I like the design, that they gave up since then (the dual dial really is convenient).
Anyway, the big issue with APSC sony is the lack of good lenses. I wanted to love the 16-70 Zeiss, but never found it to be much better than the pancake 16-50, which is not exactly impressive in the first place. So, in the meanwhile I use adapted canon lenses.
Fuji seems to have a much more coherent and well thought system. sony is all over the place, and, as you said, you should not assume that they are going to do what you expect....

As I aside, I keep my Nex 7 to shoot infrared, but is it feasible to modify fuji cameras to shoot infrared?

I think small camera needs small lenses. That is all. Since there are always more pixels, the lenses need to be good quality, prime lenses are fine, can't expect small zooms. No need to be that fast either f/2-2.8 is fine, even 4 if short or long. Sony has by now a good selection of big lenses. They are fine on full frame body bit not in compact camera.

My first serious camera did not have ibis and it taught me how to get sharp shots anyway. Since then I've always had cameras with ibis, and whenever I've considered switching to a different brand I've hesitated if there's no ibis. Bit of a drug, but it does come in handy for a limited range of shots. I still use higher shutter speed when possible since I never get consistent results shooting handheld with longish exposures (at around 1/15 of a second and longer I'm taking chances depending on the lens of course).

When I dumped my dear Pentax DSLR (with IBIS) for the Fuji X system, I knew I would miss the IBIS...I just didn't know how much. Turns out the answer is: A lot!

But I did follow your advice 2 years ago when I switched:

Q: Does Fuji have the primes I want now?
A: Yes.

Q: Have they announced even more primes I want?
A: Yes.

Q: Can I afford to buy all the primes I want?
A: Stop asking silly questions!

As for the bodies, I bought the X-E2 as soon as it came out. Then they released the X-T1 out of nowhere, and it turns out that would've been the better choice for me. Now I'm waiting for the X-T2 to upgrade. After the improvements brought about by Firmware 4 (now delivered to the X-E2, thank you, Fuji!), I'm feeling better about Fuji. All I need now is for them to allow AF via button push in the AF modes, and to fix that annoying Min Shutter Speed in Auto ISO that's ignored once the camera hits its ISO ceiling. It's amazing how those two things bother me so much, especially since Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic and Nikon have had the first one sorted out for years (and maybe Canon too, but I wouldn't know).

Anyway, short answer: Yes, I keep trying to kick Lucy's ball, it's just a different ball every time I try.

what is "IBIS"? excuse my ignorance of digital matters.

[In-body image stabilization. --Mike]

I have the ARII and the Oly EM-5. I am happy with both (for different purposes) and I am not suffering from GAS. Nevertheless, when the Sony 5300 was rumoured, I mused that it would be nice to have it in place of the EM-5: Even lighter, share the FF lenses, etc. But without IBIS? Never!

It's interesting that IBIS is considered essential by so many, but I don't even think about it when I'm picking lenses or shooting.

I don't have VR, as Nikon calls it, in any of my current most-used lenses and bodies (Nikon D810 and 14-24mm, 24mm, 50mm, 85mm). So because I've never learned to rely on it, I don't think about it or crave it. When I shopped for a mirrorless, I forgot to even consider it (and got the Fuji XT-10).

I know for a fact how handy it is -- I always have it turned on with my rarely-used 70-200mm.

But my mind naturally thinks in terms of the usual non-VR set of shutter speeds/hand-held restrictions, and I know exactly how to work with the ISO, shutter speed and aperture to get where I want. Or I carry a tripod.

I shoot m43 which is great in plentiful light. Less so in low light but the IBIS is helpful. I think the perfect camera bag for general purpose and travel would be a m43 camera with IBIS , a few lenses , and one camera/lens combo with a 28 or 35mm pancake lens (Rxrii?) which would excel in low light . Still looking for the perfect low light camera either FF or APS-C . Since most of my low light stuff in indoors without flash it usually involves people and IBIS doesn't' help much with moving subjects. Better to have a sensor that let's you shoot at 1/125 sec indoors with little noise than IBIS.
The RXrii is almost there . the A6xxx could be the one if there was at least one very small 'pancake' to attach.

I really want the XT-2 to have IBIS. I know it won't, but hey, I'm not going to buy it new anyway, so waiting for a not announced camera to be released and then age down to an affordable price point is even sillier, so that's okay. The A6300 does disappoint, as it does what it already did, just a bit better. Great, but new things should address the previous generation's faults as well as improving on what they're good at. Look at the Nikon D500 - except IBIS, which Nikon is clearly not interested in putting into DSLRs, it answered just about every issue D7200 and D300 holdouts had.

"Instead, Sony improved the autofocus speed and the video performance."

Shouldn't that sentence start with "Kidding!"?

The one time I used an a6000 for any length of time, it was with manual focus lenses, so I can't speak to AF. I do remember that video quality was very disappointing to certain filmmakers, who were hoping for a smallish B-roll camera capable of video of at least Canon SLR caliber.

My disappointments were more qualitative and tactile--like the plasticky feel of body and the digital "look" of the files. I wouldn't rule out that one influenced the other, perception-wise. And perhaps I could have found a series of lightroom actions to give me a look I was happy with, but given that at least three other camera makers gave me files I preferred right out of camera, I wasn't very motivated to find out.

No
Yes
Yes
No

We are well into the territory of diminishing returns with modern camera bodies. However, I do think that Sony has been marketing led on the spec for this camera. If the upgrades had also added a touch screen, IBIS, weather sealing, 14 bit RAW files and some more good APS-C E mount lenses to add to the paltry 3 or 4 in the current range, then Sony would have taken the market by storm. Except all of those features are available in A7 series models, which cost several times more than the A6000/A6300, especially when you factor in the higher cost of the FE lenses. So it's a classic upsell.

"remember, Sony has a long video history, broadcast quality"

That long video history has been a massive, and not necessarily positive, influence on Sony and Panasonic still cameras, whose pro video cameras have long dominated the broadcast news and documentary markets. There are some positive technical benefits, naturally, but many feel that the fear of upsetting those established--and traditionally lucrative--margins and revenues were a significant negative influence on recent still camera development at both companies.

The improvements come now primarily, I'm guessing, because those markets have been changing rapidly, and technological and vocational lines are blurring even more rapidly, and these companies finally realize that they can no longer bank on preserving the old status quo and need to invest in keeping up with the changes that they themselves helped bring about.

Missing the point surely? Buy this one and then, in about 18 months, you'll be encouraged to "upgrade" to the next version - which will include some form of stabilisation but lack some other capability that you'd like to have ("don't worry, we're working on it...").
Personally I got off this merry-go-round (aka "carousel" in the US, I believe) a couple of years ago. I find that what I point the camera at is the biggest determinant of the results.

If one really likes Sony's NEX/Axxx E-mount line, I say just pick up an A6000 with kit zoom now. Add Sigma's 19mm, 30mm and 60mm zooms (each only about $200) and be done with it. Leave off the kit zoom if you know you won't use it. Don't worry about about heavy, long telephoto lenses on this body. And don't worry about IBIS. Then, when the price of the A6300 body drops to $500 or less (and it will, sooner or later), jump on it. And, most of all, enjoy.

P.S. It's a matter of perspective, of course. If the camera divisions were discouraged from encroaching too much on the companies' video markets, that may have been a good thing for still photographers.

Some may wonder what IBIS is. Well, it's a bird - a tall-legged, long-beaked one, morphologically similar to herons, storks and flamingos. It was a sacred animal and was commonly depicted in the artwork of ancient Egypt, being frequently associated to the deity Thoth and symbolizing writing and mathematics.
I don't know how any of this relates to cameras, although I'm sure that ancient Egyptians would take lots of pictures of ibises if they had cameras at that time (and provided photographing sacred birds was not forbidden).

Mike, as far as i know, your current camera the Fuji Xt 1 doesn´t have IBIS. Does that mean that you´re dissapointed with the XT1 too.

Is the lack of IBIS in the Fuji XT1 preventing you from taking the images you want?

If my memory serves me right, i think you had a camera with IBIS the olympus EM1 from which you moved to the Fuji camera without IBIS

I know what I want(need?). I know it exists - I can identify the make and model. What I don't know is where I can get the money to buy it!! (A lifelong malady...)

I believe installing IBIS would have necessitated a larger body size, negating perhaps the best part of the a6300, a small body. I don’t think it is coincidence that both Panasonic and Olympus have made new, EVF, larger 4:3 cameras that include IBIS, cameras that are even larger than the APS-C a6300.

Of course it is also quite possible that Sony didn't want the a6300 to take customers away from the A7II.

IBIS allows some electronic features that bypass otherwise hard-wired physical limitations. The high-resolution mode on the Olympus E-M5 II and Pen-F are feasible only with a very precise IBIS and the resolution and color purity of those photos can be astounding. The Pentax K-3 II takes a somewhat similar approach with its IBIS system.

I suspect that we'll see hand-held high-resolution capabilities within a year or less, depending upon the ultimate read-out speed of the new 20MP Sony M43 sensor. It's not feasible without IBIS.

I will never buy another camera which does not have IBIS and at least 4K video.

I switched to digital photography in 1998. Because equipment kept improving at such a fast rate I had a policy of buying one new device (camera or camcorder) every year up until I bought a Nex 6 (which I used as my primary for a while).

Because technology was improving so fast I never bought the very top of the line as it would become obsolete so fast. I would spend $800-1000 on each camera/camcorder.

When the A7Rii came out I abandoned that policy because it is such a perfect camera for me. The only improvement I really care about is better weather sealing (although it is better then past Sonys).

If the A6300 had come with IBIS I would have felt bad about the A7Rii because its so much more expensive and it would have been good enough.

At this point, except for buying a full frame 28 mm lens, I have no interest in any new photographic equipment.

I plan to stick with the A7Rii until it dies.


Yes, I'm a bit surprised that the A6300 omits IBIS. (Not so much the touchscreen.) No, I'm not "disappointed". The longest E and FE lenses I'd use on it all have optical stabilization. For shorter focal lengths I have the excellent combination of today's ridiculously high ISO smoothness and shutter-priority program shooting.

Meanwhile I am enthusiastic about the larger array of focus detection points trickling down to this camera. (More zone accuracy and flexibility I hope.) And I'm always in favor of greater AF speed. Why wouldn't I be?! Plus, I'm very enthusiastic about a higher-res OLED viewfinder. Yay Sony!

So, while an A6300 isn't at the top of my very short "want" list it is absolutely somewhere on that list. I've been an enthusiastic user of Sony's NEX-style camera concept since the NEX-3. It's never failed to impress me with its light compactness, versatility, and certainly its image quality. I've captured many of my favorite images with a NEX camera often in logistically difficult situations, all without IBIS.

You should gripe to Fuji about offering no IBIS at all. The cheapskates don't want to license the technology.

IBIS isn't really an issue, for me. I'm using the Sony/Zeiss 16-70mm 80% of the time, and it has stabilization. The big improvement, again for me, would be the external microphone jack. I do use my a6000 and NEX-6 for web videos every couple of weeks. Weather sealing sounds like a big deal, but I've shot non-sealed digital cameras in pretty gruesome weather for many years, without failure. I'll probably buy one 3 weeks before a newer model is introduced. I didn't buy the a6000 until the $398 sale. Jeez, that's almost disposable.

I have seen two teardowns of the Sony A7 models that offer IBIS, one by Roger Cicala and another at ifixit.com. The IBIS for the full-frame sensor is substantial and is a complex mechanism that floats on a magnetic cushion. I am sure that there are some real engineering challenges in stabilizing a full-frame sensor and the heat-sink that is required to prevent overheating of the sensor. The IBIS capable Sony cameras sell for about $1,000 more and I believe the IBIS represents most of the higher price.

Olympus has really set the gold standard for IBIS but there is less mass and inertia for a 4/3 sensor and so the IBIS mechanism is smaller and less costly.

I think that the hallmark of the new Sony A6300 is fast and precise AF. Adding IBIS would have increased the size and cost of the camera significantly. Also, most of the Sony lenses have O.S.S. (Optical Steady Shot) which provides the image stabilization in the lens.

What is "IBIS"?

* IBIS - would be nice but not really necessary.
* I wanted the A6300 to be something I "had" to get, but it's not. Is that disappointing? Not really because I have five (six if you count the phone but I don't) more than capable cameras that are optimized for what they do best.
* Net net: More money to put towards something really great, like maybe a NAP 250DR. Yeah I know, off-topic, but at least audio is consistently inspiring and emotionally involving!

Help me out here please. I have been somewhat a camera for a while as my a6000 got stolen. I have been following the mirrorless rumors and kind of thought there were 2 new Sonys coming out. An a6xxxx and an a7000 or were they the same rumor camera ? meaning no IBIS nor touch screen ? In which I'll get another a6000.

I wonder - if someone needs IBIS alongside the high ISO performance of most new cameras, and fast lenses like Fuji have, maybe what they really need is a tripod. Remember IS is not much good for anything that moves, so that leaves.... dark landscapes....

"Do we really need stills cameras to double as video cameras?"

For some of us, the answer is yes. This lets us get away with carrying one camera instead of two, which is a huge boon when traveling. With regards to recording 4k, that's quickly becoming somewhat of a standard feature for "serious" cameras even if it's overkill for most folks.

Do I wish Sony had added IBIS? Sure do, but other than that they addressed most of the issues (fixed the "downgrades" they'd made in the NEX-6 to a6000 transition, e.g. the viewfinder and deletion of the built-in level) the a6000 had. Will I upgrade? There's a good chance of that, once the price has dropped a bit.

As with any new product, there are design goals.
If Sony wanted to keep the A6300 small, IBIS would have made the camera body thicker. That might have turned away one customer demographic, those who want a "real" camera that is thin and relatively small. These would be the people moving from cell phones and inexpensive point-and-shoots. These people usually don't have legacy lenses, and are going to buy the kit lens, and perhaps also an inexpensive tele zoom, both with stabilization built in. So, IBIS is not important to them. If someone is interested in shooting sports or other fast-action subjects, they're going to have an autofocus lens, likely with built-in stabilization. With many of the Sony lenses already having stabilization, why go duplicate this feature in the camera body?
Sony is also a television manufacturer, and 4K television is what the market is all about now. The Sony cameras that shoot 4K stills and video are seamlessly compatible with Sony's 4K televisions. So, yes, video is a priority for Sony.
I do think that the people at Sony listen to their customers. As examples, over a relatively short period of time they have significantly improved the user interface for the alpha-series cameras, and added a second, uncompressed RAW file option to the A7 series cameras.
Based on initial design and performance specifications, those new G-Master lenses show that Sony is working to address the requests for an improved depth of selection of native lenses for the Sony e-mount.

Sure, every photographer has different needs. I have never used video on a DSLR. I shoot landscapes mostly with a 24mp Canon t6s. Don't need full frame or L lenses. I do care about the end result.
But just like the pro audio field I used to be part of, when the recording is played, can you tell what mic, mic pre and converter were used? No. A good recording is just that. A good photo is a good photo.No one knows the camera used.

But just to be totally honest, I am not beyond GAS syndrome. Never was. Hard lessons to learn! :)

Is it possible Olympus licensed their IBIS tech to Sony, but with the clause "not in an APS camera"?

The gentle whirring of the IBIS gives me comfort when I use my Olympus camera.

Luca hit the nail on the head. Sony cameras look enticing, but no IBIS and no high quality but relatively (for the format) small and reasonably priced lenses stop my interest. If you want the best image quality and camera performance, there are plenty of options in big heavy cameras with big heavy lenses. For a small and light setup I have not seen Sony put together a cohesive package in the m 4/3 & APC segment yet.

I switched from a full frame Sony A99 with IBIS to an apsc Fuji XT-1 without IBIS. I can honestly say that I have not missed IBIS at all. Fuji put stabilisation into the lenses that really need it anyway. Any form of stabilisation is useless against subject movement - and that is its achilles heel.

Dear Mike,
I really hate to have to write this. I honestly do, but I'm under the impression The Online Photographer is slowly turning into a heavily gear related site. I hope it's to your benefit and people are purchasing more gear through your links. I'm sorry and apologise for complaining, it's just that I miss the old TOP so much.

[No such thing as "the old TOP"--it's just TOP. The pendulum swings back and forth. I get complaints when there's not *enough* about gear, too. --Mike]

Mike:

I have an A6000, and the AF speed is just fine for my photography, which is usually in fairly bright light. Focus tracking is not a major consideration for me, and as far as video goes I'm a still photographer. I usually shoot a short video when I get a new camera just to make sure the function is working properly, then turn the function off so I don't accidentally fill up a memory card with an art film of the inside of a camera bag or my right foot.

IBIS would be nice, but the results I'm getting with the A6000 and the non-stabilized 30mm f2.8 Sigma are so good (given an adequately fast shutter speed) that I'm not missing it much.

But I will be upgrading to the A6300 in time (I.E. after the superb Epson P800 is paid off), because of two things: First, the improved viewfinder and second, the inclusion of a level gage. I've missed the latter going from an RX-10 to the A6000.

I'm a canon switcher so just the ability to have fast autofocus will all my lenses is enough for me. Also at $1000 I don't have to have all my dreams come true to still want to test it out.

I am still happy with my NEX-7. Everything else gets shot with ALPA, Hasselblad or Sigma Foveon. I am a bit picky, but not about IBIS.

I don't know. I guess I'm just old school. IBIS can ruin just as many shots as it helps.

All manufacturers lower prices as products age, but recent trends among 'mirrorless' camera manufacturers are disturbing in their amplitude. It seems like as high as we can get away with for early adopters, then about 2/3 of initial price for a while, then straight to close out at less than half the initial price.
They also destroy the value of the camera to their most loyal early adopting customers..
I almost think that after the close-out prices when supply is gone there is even a bit of a rebound as people remember how good the camera was and what a good value it is.
But folks who buy at the top price take a terrible beating if they upgrade regularly.
Manufacturers know this and calculate upgrades to provide enough of what people want to be enticing, but not so much as to be completely satisfying.
We should do our best not to reward them.
Since most cameras are so good now, we should buy the back of the curve rather than the front.
That may not always be possible, but it has been a good strategy.

[Hard to know what's cart and what's horse with this. The manufacturers also have to deal with the behavior of their market, i.e. buyers. So what do you do when there's an intense flurry of interest at first that quickly drops to tepid, and then after a few years you can't give the cameras away? You could just as easily argue that the practice you outline is as much a response to the curve of buyers' interest as it is a deliberate (and cynical) strategy to maximize profit. --Mike]

I own the A6000 and haven't had any concerns with AF speed (though it can't match my older Nikon D7000 for tracking a moving subject or in low light). I will say, though, that it's only fast with my Sony lenses; it's sluggish with my Sigma 60/2.8 and almost useless with that particular lens in very low light.

As for video, I have no interest in 4k, outside of the ability to capture 30fps at 8MP (not on any regular basis - more a "fun" feature).

I haven't read much about a "silent shutter" feature, but that would be much appreciated, as would the digital level (why on earth they ever removed that with the a6000 is beyond me). And an improved EVF would be nice.

I'm not in the market to upgrade my A6000, but IBIS probably would have been the single, most compelling feature (since my two most used lenses are the FE 28/2 and the Sigma 60/2.8, both of which lack IS).

I suppose it's true with all companies, but more so with Sony, somehow: you really can't count on them to do anything that they haven't announced. Their strategies just don't often jive with what I (as an amateur photographer and armchair CEO) expect.

My name for the perfect unreleased object is "the latent object."

http://tleaves.com/wordpress-archive/post0215/

It's even made TOP before:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2012/11/it-all-boils-down-to-mario-and-zombies.html

😃

Re Michael Perini: " It seems like as high as we can get away with for early adopters, then about 2/3 of initial price for a while, then straight to close out at less than half the initial price."
Digital cameras have become just another consumer electronics product, it seems. Since around 1970, electronics technology has moved so fast (Moore's law and all that it entails) that electronic products are obsoleted by new product introductions on a fast time line.
I bought a Nikon FM in the late 70s for the equivalent of $800-900 in 2016$ and sold it for about what I paid for it about 15 years later, again adjusted for inflation.
I bought new Nikon D100/200/300 upgrades on a 2 year cycle and each time the camera was worth less than half what I paid for it after 2 years!
Now I'm smarter - I shoot two Oly E-P3s which I bought less than two years old for 1/4 of the new selling price. I doubt I will buy new again - although the Pen F is tempting.
But interestingly, I've bought and sold quite a few OLY and PAN M4/3 lenses, generally selling for 80-90% of my purchase prices. Lenses don't get obsolete so fast.
PS- have you ever sold a used cell phone? That's depreciation!

IBIS is not that important to me with the type of low light performance that Sony is now offering now....It more than makes up for having the stabilization in the camera..also if the AF is spot on in that low light that will be a big plus in photojournalism world...along with the noiseless shutter.

I had a NEX6 and while the image quality was fine the slow focus and a few other things really annoyed me. I upgraded to the A6000 when the price had dropped a bit and it fixed most of my bigger issues including focus speed.

The 6300 appeals primarily for it's better body build and weather sealing - the new viewfinder would also be nice., I agree if it had IBIS I'd be thinking about buying sooner rather than later. Frankly all the updates are good ones but not not strong enough to upgrade right now for for what I do.

It feels a bit like the the iPhone marketing where I feel pretty safe buying on and every other kind of model method - like the A6300 the updates are nice but usually non-essential.

I'm in the camp with Canon and Fuji that image stabilization is best implemented with lenses rather than bodies. If you were using the Fuji XF 18-55 (Nat Geo photographer David Allen Harvey loves this lens, FWIW), you'd not only have excellent versatility and image quality, but image stabilization as well.

When I really need image stabilization, I use that thing called a tripod. Remember those? ;-)

Product Differentiation vs. Price Discrimination: Digital

The reason why a premium feature (e.g. IBIS) does not trickle down from flagship products to their lesser siblings is an example of product differentiation. Firms want to charge a premium price for their flagship product and lower prices for less stellar ones. We get this.

Slashing prices for products near the end of their cycle is an example of third-degree price discrimination. That is, charging different prices for the same product across different market segments: early vs. late adapters. What distinguishes early adapters from late adapters is that for the former price doesn't matter as much as it does for the latter. Early adapters are said to be "price inelastic" such that sellers can set the price as high as they dare and the early adapters will take it.

Product differentiation and price discrimination were not much of an issue in the age of film. Back then, cameras where "durable equipment." Not so with digital where the rapid pace of innovation and obsolescence has made digital cameras virtually "consummable."

How not to be a digital price-taker? Wait.

Yes the lack of IBIS is a little disappointing but I can see why they have chosen this route. IBIS is expensive to implement and would make the camera larger regardless of how clever those Sony tech boffins may be.
It is all about compromises and the end game I imagine.

Sony want to be no 1, to reach that goal they need to prove beyond all doubt that their mirrorless system can out DSLR all the DSLR competition; little by little they have through sheer technical force chipped away at that goal.

The one key advantage that DSLRs have left (forget about OVFs that horse has bolted some time ago, especially once you can accept that the whole idea of the viewfinder is to show you what you are actually going to record not simply a framed view of the world) is focus speed and tracking accuracy.

It's a case of hitting Canikon where it hurts and IBIS is for most DSLR owners not such a big deal as other than Pentax they don't have it and additionally lens based stabilisation is not universal across all their lenses either.

Additionally nice as it is the A6300 is still low/mid range APSC camera, I would not at all be surprised if Sony released a more up market APSC body that did include IBIS and Touch Screen.

In the meantime market priorities and price points will prevail, despite the fact we want it all right now and for less, and it is pretty clear that progressively Sony are pitching at ever higher price points with all their camera products lines.

On the lens issue that lots of people keep bringing up a couple considerations might be worth considering.

Many users, Nikon, Canon, Sony will aspire to going full frame eventually, hence the lenses you buy ideally should cover both bases, obviously that makes for heavier more expensive lenses. It is sensible then that a company unimpeded by history would offer two lines, cheap cheerful APSC to get the job done for 90% of consumer needs and expensive aspirational lenses for upgraders and pros. Forget the middle ground stuff it would just hold folk back from upgrading on bodies in the end.

Secondly even if you are sticking with APSC Sony there are more lenses out there than you can use than with any other system on the planet, you have the Sony offerings APSC/Full Frame, then you have the terrific Sigma trio, Samyangs' line, then via adapters all of the Canons with or without Autofocus and Stabilisation, Nikons (now with the potential of autofocus), Leica, (even with auto focus) Pentax Screw, Minolta A and Sony A mounts and on and on......what is the problem? I have almost never met a lens I couldn't fit on my Nex gear!

The contemporary looks of the small A6000 and this new A6300 bodies are nicer than most of their retro competitors, including the new PEN-F. But a quick Photozone/Amazon study of the lenses for this system shows that: Most are really huge, many are expensive (and huge) and the smaller ones are poor or slow. There are some fine budget Sigma 2.8 primes but then you certainly would like to have an IBIS in your camera. Did I overlook anything?
I never cared much about the IBIS on my E-M5, until I read the file information of a favorite indoor snapshot the other day. Sharp 1/10 second!

You clearly and beautifully articulated my thoughts and feelings about the lack of IBIS in the A6300.

I have an A6000 and was hoping to be able to IS my Sigma Art DN lenses and the whole stack of Nikon manual focus optics I own. IBIS was the _one_ and _only_ feature I was waiting for. The current A6000 is brilliant in every way for the things I do.

Do I really need to switch systems to go with Olympus? Or spend big bux for an A7II - which I dislike for the weight, size, and price?

I feel like Sony blew it.

Can any A6000 users comment on its AF tracking performance with the Sony 50mm f/1.8 E-mount lens?

I tried using that lens on my NEX7 for dance photography. The combination wasn't usable and I've gone back to my old Canon 20D & 50mm f/1.4. I'm now wondering if the A6300 might change the equation, but I suspect that Sony's 50mm is not a fast-focusing lens.

The NEX-6 was released in 2012.

One thing about the a6300 that should be watched for is the Sony lossy .ARW file compression problem. Sony claims a new algorithm but if image quality is paramount then testing before paying would be prudent.

- No GPS
- Screen only tilts.
Insofar the new NEX 6300 is still sub par compared with the venerable A 55 which had GPS and fully tilt/swivel screen!!
- No touch screen.
"One remarks the intention and is annoyed" (Goethe, Torquato Tasso)

I just read an interview with a Fujifilm manager stating that IBIS is never coming for X-mount. So those wanting an APS-C mirrorless system with IBIS can only hope that Sony adds it to a model above the A6300 or that Pentax gets back in the game. I don't see Canon or Nikon ever going IBIS. Samsung might have, but now we'll probably never know.

A shame - APS-C hits the sweet spot for price/size/performance, IMO.

So many new cameras ... Too much choice ...

I use Pentax k5 and Oly OMDEM5

They are lovely and both have IBIS ...its a no brainer

Oh and good EVF s or Good Pentaprisms

Tempted by Fuji ...but only the X100 with its lovely files ...and thankfully no trans sensor.

But as well as EVF and IBIS there is one other thing I find really useful is a fully articulated screen especially for portrait views and on a tripod ... So I am thinking of selling my K5 for the lesser but still eeathershielded KS2

Reading this reminded me of Roger Cicala's Law of New Product Introduction http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction

Personally, I would have wanted IBIS. But it would have increased size and I like the compactness of the Nex (now alpha) series. They fit in pockets of outdoor coats, making them very attractive cameras to carry around. They did, however, upgrade the EVF, which in my mind was one of the weak points with the a6000.

But I read the take on EosHD, a videography site, where it was classed as a bargain for its capabilities. I thought it over and have to agree: for video heavy work it's a very attractive device. It's a bit higher specced than I need though, and for still photographers the price is a bit steep. I like that they are pushing new boundaries though, and the sample videos are very nice indeed.

I don't miss IBIS on my Fuji X-Pro1, because I'm not assembling a large collection of lenses for it. The kit zooms match up well with my intentions and style, and don't force me to rely on the EVF side of the VF.

But I really, really want IBIS in my mainstay SLR system. I like ultrawide lenses, old lenses, fast primes and even older lenses, and none of those are likely to have in-lens stabilization. I don't want to pay for a separate stabilization system that demands additional elements and complications in every lens- though I can understand why Canon and Nikon feel differently. . That's the biggest reason I traded out of Sony alpha into Pentax.

I waited for in body image stabilization for that camera for years. Then on release day they said it won't have it. Huge disappointment. I won't buy it due to that fact.

As a long-tine NEX7 shooter that would consider an upgrade, I'm much less disappointed in the lack of IBIS than I am that the A6300 omits one of the best NEX7 features - the Tri-Navi. A pox on PASM/Scene dials.

Coming from a Minolta 7D, Sony A700, A580, and A77, it was with some trepidation that I bought a NEX-7 and gave up IBIS 4 years ago. But in the end I don't miss it much. The 35mm/1.8 and 50mm/1.8 has OSS, as does the 55-210mm and 18-55mm zooms I use occasionally. I use the Sigma 19mm/2.8 for street photography but I don't miss IS or IBIS because it wouldn't help in that application. And the Samyang 8mm/2.8 is generally used on a tripod. Sure, IBIS could be handy in some circumstances but I don't see it as such the deal breaker.

The A6300 looks to be a great upgrade to the NEX-7 in many respects. I just got a A5100 cheap and its AF (basically the same as the A6000) is so much better than the NEX-7 so the A6300 should be much better still.

The silent shutter feature of the A6300 would be great for concert photography. The weather sealing has long been requested. Would be nice to be less concerned when used in less than dry conditions. The high refresh EVF and low viewfinder blackout at 8fps will help with tracking shots.

I'm very tempted by the A6300 but will wait till the prices reduce a bit and decide to replace the NEX-7 (it's still great for portraits and static/tripod shots).

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