D800E Haptics

First, get a load of this: Thom Hogan reports that although the Nikon Contest 2012-13 is now open, users of the only premium film SLR still being marketed, the Nikon F6, aren't invited.

Oh, perfidy! Film is officially the poor stepchild now, I guess. Before it was just de facto.

An awesome (overused term used advisedly) lens
Apropos of stepchildren, I suspect 35mm might be the poor stepchild focal length of Nikon's recently refurbished ƒ/1.8 line of FX primes, too. They'll probably jump right to the other short teles and get to 35mm, the perennially neglected focal length clad in rags and cowering in the corner, late if ever.

If there was a 35mm ƒ/1.8G lens for FX, I would have rented that one.

That's not sour grapes, exactly: the 35mm ƒ/1.4G is an awesome lens (hush, you lot of reproving pommies: I'm a proud American and I said awesome and I do mean awesome) optically, truly wonderful. I'm loving (and approving of) Nikon's designers' choices.

Examples? No shots for you! I checked the lens out with test shots taken around the house and the yard, and boy are those dull. The mess does look better the more bokeh there is, I'll say that.

As with all lenses, I suggest people evaluating shots taken with this lens stop scrutinizing photos anxiously for one pet quality or another and take in the overall gestalt of the lens's look instead. Its image quality is quite wonderful. Might even be the best Nikkor I've ever used, although the 24–70mm ƒ/2.8G should probably be mentioned in the same breath.

But it's imposing in size, weight, and especially price: currently $1,619 at B&H. That's really stiff for a single focal length, even of this quality. I'm struggling to convince myself that it makes sense for a low-lens-count shooter like myself (my ideal SLR lens complement is two, a 35mm and an 85mm, which I use in about an 80/20 proportion respectively), but for someone who wants a wider selection of lenses, especially someone who doesn't shoot with a 35mm a lot, it would be that much more difficult to justify.

If you shoot 50mm, no-brainer: although it is navigating the peepers' gauntlets with some difficulty, the new 50mm ƒ/1.8G is an objective with a great overall gestalt. Go for it. It would be perfection on the D600, D800, or D800E.

I suspect the old AF Nikkor 35mm ƒ/2D would do fine on this camera too, at least for my purposes. That's a lens that I know thoroughly—I reviewed it when it came out and I think I've owned five of them over the years, including one during the "oil on the aperture blades" period, and there's certainly nothing wrong with it. It's not get-outta-town beautiful like this new one, though. I especially love the ƒ/1.4G's performance wide open and one and two stops down; the transition to o-o-f is gentle but the lens is so sharp that a little blur makes the in-focus objects pop. But naturally. And the in-focus areas are subtly smooth-sharp, not harsh-sharp. It's a really pretty look. A lens to fall for. Or maybe that's just me.

And I've yet to find a weakness with it. Still looking. No VR? Okay, if you like.

The D800E and I are going to an opening tonight, so we get yet more low-light testing, this time with an emphasis on focusing. The light/weather today in Waukesha could not possibly be less appealing. As drab as can be. (Cue Muttley snigger from Universe.)

In the hand
I'll steal Erwin Puts's word, haptics, to talk about the D800E's ergonomics.

To begin with, there's big and there's big. It sorta depends on what you're used to. If you're accustomed to any of the Canikons with vertical grips, the 1Ds/D3x style cameras, then the D800E is going to seem rather light, even just a touch cramped. Coming from the other direction—from Micro 4/3 or a digicam or a rangefinder—it's a bit of a handful.

Similarly with the lens. Most people today are used to zooms, and if you're used to anything but the cheapest kit-type zooms, a 20 oz./600g lens that sticks out from the camera 3.5 inches/~9cm and takes 67mm filters isn't going to seem burdensome. You're probably accustomed to worse.

But if you're coming from (say) the World's Most Perfect Lens, the Lumix 20mm ƒ/1.7 for Micro 4/3 (3.5 oz., 1.8" long, and 46mm filters), then it seems like Bigfoot up against Natalie Portman. To plunk you into my somewhat weird world, the Nikkor is bigger than my medium-format lens, which admittedly is just a normal (80mm for 6x6cm); a moderate-wide 60mm would be bigger. (Sorry for the crappy product shot. One thing perpetually on the to-do list is to set up a tabletop for product shots. Not hard. And not done.)

Curiously, I think it's only because I've been shooting with a 6000-series Rollei for the past year or so that the Nikon seems so nice and handy. Had that monster not acclimated me to biggish and not-so-wieldy hand cameras, I might have a different take on the D800E.

As it is, the D800E seems mighty comfortable. I'm not overly familiar with Nikons—the last two I used were the D3 and the D700 back when they were newish (thanks, John C. and David N.), yet the D800E feels familiar and the controls are more or less where I expect to find them. Haven't cracked the manual or Thom Hogan's Guide yet, although no doubt I'll learn a lot more when I do. Individual photographers might have one or another pet peeve about this or that control, but I doubt there's much that won't seem like second nature soon enough. Stumbling around in the dark the other night, "I" (i.e. my conscious mind) didn't remember where the top LCD light was, but my finger did. (It's on the shutter-button collar with the on-off switch.)

The grip is long enough for all my fingers, just; you can do that thing where you hang the camera off your right-hand fingertips as you muck around with cards; the card bay is easy to access (unlike the A900, which stupidly mounts CF cards with the ridge on the wrong side. Fumblefingers me has cursed that many a time). One habit I picked up shooting Leicas—I think originating, for me, with Tom Abrahamsson; if I'm remembering that right, thanks, Tom—is to hit the shutter button not with your fingertip but with the palm side of the first knuckle on your index finger—it's easier to squeeze rather than jab the shutter button that way. Anyway the Nikon's shutter release position allows me enough room to do that.

The camera doesn't seem heavy. It's a decidedly middleweight 35+ oz./1 kg, but that's offset by the volume or bulk of the camera, and it doesn't "read" heavy to the hand. The lens is another matter; it feels like a glass paperweight, no question, and it makes the combo feel heavyish. Again, depends on what you're used to. I've always been suspicious of the conventional phrase "the lens balances well on the camera," but, if any combo will illustrate that concept, this one does. It just seems like the camera and lens has the right heft and weight to be stable as can be as you shoot.

Altogether it's a very appealing, businesslike but operator-friendly feel. Despite that, it has little "object quality." It reminds me of my RAV4: smooth and capable, decent looking if you're down with the look, quite well put together, but few pretenses. The D800E is solidly in the black polycarbonate blob school of haptics that Nikon's been rockin' with for a coon's age now.

Oh, I forgot...
...The perfect prime match for the camera is the new AF-S Nikkor 28mm ƒ/1.8G, I should mention. Saw that one at Milwaukee's best camera store, Mike Crivello's, the other day. Didn't think of it earlier. Kind of a sleeper lens that some shooters I know of are quietly loving. How much would you have to crop to get down to the 35mm angle of view? Down to 32 or 33 MP, maybe? What a hardship. Much more palatable cost, too.

Anyway, the D800E feels very smooth and capable, nicely ergonomic, and just comfortable as can be to shoot with; a real enthusiast's camera. But with the heavy 35mm (or, for most peoples' mileage, any respectable zoom) it's a camera you shoot with both hands. However comfortable your left hand feels under the lens, you do need to use it.

As soon as my progeny stumbles awake, I'm going to try to press him and some of his friends into service to pose for some portraits; I expect to encounter reluctance, if not outright resistance. Stay tuned.

Mike

Original contents copyright 2012 by Michael C. Johnston and/or the bylined author. All Rights Reserved. Links in this post may be to our affiliates; sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
A book of interest today:

(To see all the comments, click on the "Comments" link below.)
Featured Comments from:

Nikhil Ramkarran: "I've had the D800E, this 35mm and a few other bits of Nikon kit in my Amazon cart for a couple months now itching to pull the trigger. Been grinning like a fool since you decided to test this combo (and yes, I will remember to go through your links if my benefactor ever gets around to giving me the thumbs up)."

Mike replies: Not to be selfish, but be sure you take it out of your cart and re-select it before you actually do the inevitable, or we won't get credit for it...we don't get credit for anything you buy that's already in your cart, ever, even if you put it there during a session that originated from TOP. Only things that you both select and also buy during a visit directly from TOP get counted in our column. And it really does help, so many thanks [/business mode].

Aaron: "I've been really enjoying the Nikon 28mm ƒ/1.8. I got it a few months back and am using it on my D700. Paired with my 105mm (and/or 50mm, sometimes), it's been great. Just a little wider and a little longer than your 35/85mm combo. Very nice rendering—I really like the transitions between in- and out-of-focus areas. I really like the look of photos at 28mm and ƒ/1.8: there's enough in focus to be an interesting photo and the backgrounds out of focus enough to recede a bit, at middle focus distances."

Tom Kwas: "Plus one for the 35mm/85mm reality. I look back on years of professional photography, and that's what I've used even extrapolated to 120, 4x5 and 8x10. Since I shoot APS-C, what I need is a 24mm ƒ/2 (or ƒ/2.8), and a 55mm ƒ/2 (or 60mm ƒ/2 or ƒ/2.8)...since Nikon makes a killer 'G' series 60mm for a decent price, all I need is the 24mm in the 500 dollar range...where is it? Where is it?"

Mike replies: I know. I kept asking the same question, only with Pentax. They also make a killer 55mm for APS-C.

CMS: "In full agreement with your assessment of the 35mm ƒ/1.4G, which is my most-used lens on the D700 for one and a half years now. I bought it when getting tired of waiting for a 35mm ƒ/2 AF-S. Unfortunately the current 35mm ƒ/2 isn't up to the task, as the corners get soft when used wider than ƒ/8. As if that wasn't enough, both my AF and AF-D samples are affected by the oil on the aperture blades problem."

Comments

[wchen]

But when you compare this Nikkor to the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 ZF.2,the Nikkor is small :).

[Bill Pierce]

I suspect you will eventually overcome progeny resistance. However, there may be an abundance of grimaces which will challenge your ability as a photo editor.

[Helcio J. Tagliolatto]

The Xenotar 80/2,8 for Rollei...the best normal lens, almost forgotten...

[Larry Gebhardt]

I really hope Nikon releases a 35mm f/1.8 AFS lens. The 50mm and 85mm are superb on the D800E. The 28mm is pretty good, but not quite as good. I could be very happy with just the 35mm and 85mm lenses for most days shooting.

The 35mm f/2 AFD really doesn't look good on this camera, where as I found it pretty decent on a film body.

[Stephen Best]

Heftics? Any camera/lens combo this size I'd want to be paid for lugging it around.

[Bojan Volcansek]

Hey Mike,
what happened with Tokina 35mm macro from your post from October 11, 2011:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2011/10/kennerdell.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2FZSjz+%28The+Online+Photographer%29

wouldn't that be great match for D800E?

yours "sick in bed coughing and sneezing" Bojan

[Richard Alan Fox]

Mike if you like the angle of view the 60 macro is super sharp and a good match size and price wise.

Shoot the 28mm using the 4:5 crop, similar results (as far back as I can remember) as when I shot a 135 Nikkor W on my Linhof.

That combo was graduate school at San Francisco State University with Jack Welpott and Don Worth.

Memories anyone?

[Mike Johnston]

"Heftics? Any camera/lens combo this size I'd want to be paid for lugging it around."

Stephen,
No, you'd lug it around with great pleasure. With your printing skills and clear vision, you'd love it. To death. Seriously.

Mike

[Diego]

Interesting that you mention the lack of VR on the 35mm f/1.4, as Canon has put stabilization on their wide angle primes lately (they just announced a 35mm f/2 IS for example).

But before that announcement, the only way you could get stabilization in a full-frame body with a large aperture lens was with the Sony a900/a850/a99 (they have in-body stabilization for all lenses, even old Minolta ones).

From a photographer's perspective, it boggles my mind as to why Canon and Nikon haven't introduced in-body stabilization yet - instant VR on all lenses, no matter how old. A great feature!

From a business perspective though, it's quite clear - they sell more new lenses to upgraders, and crush the used market, by putting the new features in the lens, not the camera. And that's where they make money - the profit is in lenses and accessories, not in bodies.

Sad that it's that way, but that's the way it is.

[Jay Frew]

Hello Mike:

If I were in your shoes, I would wait and check-out the new Sigma 35/1.4. It probably won't be too long before Roger has some to rent. Maybe you should check-out their 85/1.4 as well. Heck, for the price of that Nikon 35/1.4, you could get both of those Sigmas. Could the Nikon really be that much better?

I think it's time we take a collective stand against the ridiculous prices that Canon & Nikon have pulled out of thin air.

Whichever way you go with the lenses, I am sure you will enjoy working with that Very Fine photo kit.

Cheers! Jay

[Bahi]

Mr. Hogan's D800/D800E guide is a good one. I was asked by a new D800E owner to help with her new camera at very short notice and the Hogan sped up my own learning a lot. She was happy and so was I.

My favourite tests in car magazines were always the long-term tests; I hope that you'll like the D800E enough to buy one and use it enough after that to keep writing about it and showing us pictures. I have a feeling that you will.

[ginsbu]

I expect these have crossed your mind already, but the new Sigma 35/1.4 looks promising and Samyang/Rokinon/Bower/et al have a very good and inexpensive manual focus 35/1.4. (I hear, though, that the D800 isn't friendly when it comes to alternative focusing screens.)

[Bryan Hansel]

The D800s 1.2x crop mode gets your 28 pretty close to 35mm and you get to see the crop outline in the viewfinder. Now that I have a D800, I want to reshoot all my old images with it, because when I compare old images to my new images, it feels like the separation between B.C.E and C.E.

You need to get out shooting this thing.

[CarstenW]

This is not on topic, but have you ever had the opportunity to compare the Schneider-Kreuznach and Zeiss 80/2.8 Rolleis? I own the latter, along with a 6008i, and wonder about Schneider vs. Zeiss. I guess both are great, I would just love to know what the difference is in characteristics.

[Dave in NM]

"If there was a 35mm ƒ/1.8G lens, I would have rented that one."

There is a 35/1.8G, and it's less than $200; but unfortunately, it's a DX lens, meant for APS sensors. The Tokina that Bojan brought up also suffers from the same deficiency...

[Eric Erickson]

Mike, I have both the lenses you referred to the 35/1.4 and 85/1.4, and love them both; however, when I got the D 800 (no E), I also purchased the 28-300 lens. I have to tell you that is a terrific lens, and generally the one I carry with me when I shoot. Especially when I go out to the woods to shoot nature and such. I would strongly recommend the lens on the d800 or d800E. You wouldn't be disappointed.

[Mike Johnston]

"have you ever had the opportunity to compare the Schneider-Kreuznach and Zeiss 80/2.8 Rolleis? I own the latter, along with a 6008i, and wonder about Schneider vs. Zeiss."

Carsten,
Considering all the German 80mm Planar-types I've used or tested over the years, I would guess that sample variation would be a greater determinant of final quality than the manufacturer would be. I've tested great and not-so-great Schneiders, and great and not-so-great Zeisses. Of course the vintages and conditions varied as well. But that's my best guess.

Mike

[Laurence]

Mike replies: Not to be selfish, but be sure you take it out of your cart and re-select it before you actually do the inevitable, or we won't get credit for it...we don't get credit for anything you buy that's already in your cart, ever, even if you put it there during a session that originated from TOP. Only things that you both select and also buy during a visit directly from TOP get counted in our column. And it really does help, so many thanks [/business mode].

Wow Mike, I didn't realize about the cart situation. That is good information, as it pays US in 'reading dividends'to have your site up and running.

[Peter]

Zeiss makes a 25/2 lens in F-mount, assuming that manual focus in a $1700 lens is ok. Although these days given the high-ISO capabilities of cameras there's a 2.8 version to consider too.

[Zane Davis]

I too have been loving the D800 and 28mm f/1.8G combination. I've used the two to do a light of night photography -- both on tripods at low ISOs and hand held at high ISOs.

I've been extremely impressed in both situations. The D800 easily outperforms the medium format backs I've shot, especially in low light situations that require high ISOs or long exposures.

I like it so much that I am selling all of my film gear: I just can't see myself lugging around a 4x5 when I've got these guys. For better or worse.

[Oskar Ojala]

FWIW, a few years ago when I was in the smartphone making business, "haptics" was all the rage. Wasn't aware that Puts uses the term, though.

That said, haptics is what prevented me from buying the Nikkor 28/1.8. It's a rational man's lens: reasonable price, good quality. But it feels like plastic, is slightly big and is ever so slightly soft at large apertures. So I bought the Zeiss 25/2, the irrational choice: costs more, weighs more (but is smaller) and has no autofocus. But it has smooth tactile feel and the image rendition is sharp and contrasty at all apertures. Can't say I have looked back, the Zeiss is really great.

As for balancing, I've been lately using a Voigtländer 90/3.5 with my D800 and while the lens is quite small in size, it feels quite good on the D800: no front heaviness, easy to turn the focus ring and the camera is large enough to feel comfortably balanced. I've actually ended up liking that combination a lot more than I thought I would.

[Alan Fairley]

For my new D800 I passed on the 35mm f2D in favor of a clean used 35mm f2 AIs, manual focus, but from what I have read it approaches the Zeiss 35mm f2 (also manual focus) at a quarter of the cost.

[ben ng]

Sounds like the camera is exciting you Mike, and you just want to use it. Good for you !
i remember your post about having difficulty connecting with the Olympus OMD-EM5, which I thought was a very good article because we just have to want to use the bloody thing and sometimes it just doesn't take to us, or vice versa. I am enjoying your responses to this Nikon.

[robert harshman]

Mike, there has really never been a better 35mm SLR on the planet. Lenses are what they are, and the E version of the camera requires that you keep the F stop at or below F5.6 to get the most from a E variant of this wonder.

Don't bother with ISO above 1600 in camera, Nikon's approach seems to be flat on shadow lift above that iso, better done is PS or ...

Try out the trial, just contact them for one, is Picturecode's PhotoNinja. It's the best RAW developer I've seen yet, and Jim is quite open to comments and suggestions. I've already made a few suggestions/bug fixes that have been done. In my view, it's the best RAW converter when you care about quality, not quite the easiest or fastest yet, but that s/b fixed in a month or two.

well worth looking into. Enjoy your rental, I'm sure you will buy one.

Robert

[John Camp]

As a D3 shooter, I never thought the D800 felt particularly big. I thought it was solid. Then today, for reasons I don't feel like explaining, but which I swear to God are totally legitimate, I went into a mall in Albuquerque and shot a photo of a bigger-than-lifesize photo of a Victoria's Secret model, dressed in diminutive underwear. (Apparently the poor girl can't afford full-sized underwear.) The camera felt like it was the size of a cannon; I felt like one of the world's leading perverts, just waiting for a mall cop to tap me on the shoulder and ask, "Exactly what are we doing here?" I took a half-dozen shots with the 85mm 1.8G, and fled. So, I'd like to suggest than in addition to the purely scientific measure of camera size, in ounces or grams, there is also a subjective size, which becomes larger under some circumstances.

[Dan]

Like the Marilyn Monroe statue that populated downtown Chicago a while back, the D800 is beautiful, but just too darn big. I predict a love affair lasting no more than 6 months, followed by dalliances with smaller, lighter cameras that end in a divorce from the Nikon.

[Dan, I haven't decided to buy the thing yet. It's frighteningly expensive. --Mike

[Clay Olmstead]

Back on the business side, if we put stuff on our Amazon or B&H wish list, go to TOP, click through, select off the wishlist and buy, you get credit, right? That's the way I've been doing it, so I sure hope it's been working.

[Clay, unfortunately, no. If something's in your wishlist Amazon considers you already their customer. It's only things that you both select and purchase after linking from TOP that we get credit for. --Mike]

[Harry Lime]

I used to shoot the Canon EF 1.4/35L on a EOS 1-V HS. With the grip that combination approached the size of a miniature Speed Graphic. Great lens, great camera, but far too big a contraption.

I've noticed that prime lenses are growing rapidly in size. The new Nikon 1.8/28 and 1.4/35 are good examples, as is the upcoming Zeiss 1.4/55, which is bigger than a can of soup, but smaller than a pay phone. I recently purchased a Zeiss ZF 2/35 Distagon, which is roughly the size of what a 90mm or longer used to be.

We have seen a similar trend in bodies, which is why I finally jumped on the D600, when it was released.

I really don't want to be forced to use a backpack to carry two FF DSLR bodies and three primes (28/35/50). Hopefully this trend will reverse itself, but given the life span of prime lenses we are going to be stuck with this latest batch for some time.

[Armand]

I love that Xenotar 80. It is a really great lens. It is smaller than the Zeiss 80. Some pros believe the Xenotar 80 is better than the Zeiss 80. I love them both but my fav Rollei 6008 lens is the Schneider 90/4. I regularly use my Rollei 6008.

I hope I get time to play with my D800E this weekend. No money to buy any Nikon lenses though.

[Dale]

Mike, what I want to know is what do prints look like? Will a 12x18 knock my socks off like an 8x10 contact print does? If so, I will find a way to buy one and move my D700 which I am VERY satisfied with aside
Thanks
Dale

[Dale, unfortunately, printing for me has to wait. I know nothing about that yet. --Mike]

[Derrel]

Regarding the 35mm f/1.4 AF-S G Nikkor you wrote, "And I've yet to find a weakness with it. Still looking. " Well...how about the very strong longitudinal CA it exhibits at wide apertures? I gave a sample of the lens a trial, and the 35/1.4 suffered from horrific longitudinal CA...a veritable purple- and green-festival. Pretty dismal flaw for a $1600 + lens designed for wide-aperture shooting.

[Derrel, I would assume that's sensor-specific--or maybe sensor-and-converter specific--I have seen almost no evidence of it so far. But I have to cram a lot of shooting into very few days, and I'm only trying this one single combination. --Mike]

[Stan B.]

It's pretty unsettling that Nikon would pull such a move. I don't get it- philosophically, economically, technically... particularly when so many people try to mimic the look of film. Is film somehow deemed an unfair advantage, or a medium that can no longer compete?

Whatever the reason, it sends the wrong message- if anything, photo giants like Nikon should throw a few coins to both acknowledge and promote the legacy and continuation of film in the digital era.

[John Robison]

While I know the comment on the Nikon photo contest was just a side note it immediately conjured up a picture in my mind.

I see the director of Nikon film camera production sitting at a desk in the basement of a Nikon plant. Muttering to himself because they just took his red stapler.

If Nikon burns down we know the answer.

[Joe]

"Will a 12x18 knock my socks off like an 8x10 contact print does? If so, I will find a way to buy one and move my D700 which I am VERY satisfied with"

Dale -- I've still got my D700 as well as my newer D800, and in my experience printing on my Epson 3880, I'm very hard-pressed to see any difference between prints from each of those bodies at 12x18.

At 17x22, I believe I can see what the D800 brings to the table, but the D700 is already giving me a lot of pixels to work with, and if I don't press my nose against the print, I'm happy with both images.

[Joe]

Mike,

I dearly love ultra-wide, so my walk-around kit is Nikon's 24mm f/1.4 and the 85mm f/1.4G. I really, really love the 24mm for wide portraits, though I have to be very careful in framing to make it succeed.

I was tempted by the 35mm, but I sometimes toss the 50mm into my bag to fill the gap in between the 24 and the 85, and the 35mm is just redundant. But it sounds like a beautiful lens.

[Geoff Goldberg]

Glad to see you trying the "big dawg", its fun to see how it holds up.

Years ago you wrote about the 6000 series and those Schneiders, and I've been using them ever since. The 60 Curtagon and the 80 AF just find details, much like you did with your Nikon sojourn. Their magic also holds up in digital work, surprisingly, although sometimes CA is an issue.

[Douglas Frois]

That premium film SLR costs more than a Nikon D600.