I had an LOL moment last night watching Jimmy Fallon. Ex-gangsta-rapper and "Law and Order" detective Ice-T was on (broadcast here, anyway—I don't watch often enough to know whether it was a rerun or not) with his extravagant wife Coco, and he pointed out that there's a big difference between a nerd and a geek. Given any little area of enthusiasm, a nerd is a guy who knows all about it—and likes to talk about it and argue about it—and a geek is a guy who likes to do it. Whatever "it" is.
So I'm a darkroom geek but a Miata nerd. (Makin' me laugh again.)
Seems like a useful distinction to me. When I worked at the model railroad magazine, there was reader—famous among the staff—who would write highly detailed, deeply knowledgable 10-page letters about the magazine's layout articles, critiquing the author's ideas and suggesting improvements. They were so good the Editor would post them on the office bulletin board. But despite repeated attempts, the Editor couldn't get the guy to actually write an article for the magazine.
So he was a model-railroading-magazine nerd, then.
I remember back when I occasionally participated in the often contentious forums of a certain high profile British digital camera review site. I got into it once with a guy who was evangelical about a certain brand of high-end professional DSLR and outspokenly critical of the competing brand's flagship model. (I forget whether he loved C and hated N, or loved N and hated C...not that it really matters.) When I dug into it, it turned out that the fellow was a teenager who didn't own a nice DSLR at all.
A goal for him to aspire to: geekhood!
Mike
Note: Please don't take the above too seriously. Or, god forbid, personally. I know the two terms under discussion are mildly pejorative; I just thought it was funny.
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Original contents copyright 2011 by Michael C. Johnston and/or the bylined author. All Rights Reserved.
Featured Comment by MHV: "The truth of the Internet Age is that it has essentially enabled ALL of us to become geek/nerds of something in minutes. We spend more time learning about arcane matter than ever simply because we can. The problem is that we end up missing on what made our subjects of obsession obsessive at all: rarity. In the '60s, being a film buff essentially meant 1) living in Paris and 2) going to the Cinémathèque every other day. Here's a classic essay on post-rarity geekhood/nerdiness." [By the comedian Patton Oswalt. And an excellent essay, too. —MJ.]
Featured Comment by John Wilson: "I think he's wrong about the definitions. This is what Geeks believe the definitions to be:
Scott Lamb's Nerd Venn Diagram, from Buzzfeed
Mike replies: Wouldn't it be really nerdy to argue about the competing definitions of "nerd"?
Ctein replies: "Dear Mike, That would be 'nerd geeking.' helpfully yours, Ctein."
John Wilson replies: "Mike, I'm too busy being a nerd to argue about the definition at any length :-) ."
Featured Comment by Dave Burns: "Re your point of debating the definition, there's an alternate Venn diagram from xkcd (make sure to hover over the image for the tooltip comment)."
Featured Comment by Steve Jacob: "Interesting entymologies for some of these terms:
Dweeb: 1980s West Coast slang acronym for Dim-Witted Eastern-Educated Boor (usually with regard to Ivy League grads).
Nerd: Actually started as 'knurd' which is the opposite of drunk, as applied to students who don't know how to party, as supposedly coined in the 1940s at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York.
Geek: Originally applied to carnival performers who could do weird things with their bodies—came to apply to those who could do equally weird things with computers.
Dork: A term actually coined by geeks to refer to those of lesser ability, supposedly derived from a breed of chicken (a Dorking) which had an extra toe on each foot."
The truth of the Internet Age is that it has essentially enabled ALL of us to become geek/nerds of something in minutes. We spend more time learning about arcane matter than ever simply because we can.
The problem is that we end up missing on what made our subjects of obsession obsessive at all: rarity. In the 60s, being a film buff essentially meant 1) living in Paris and 2) going to the Cinémathèque every other day.
A classic essay on post-rarity geekhood/nerdiness:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/ff_angrynerd_geekculture
Posted by: MHV | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 01:21 PM
I take joy from hearing that the esteemed editor of TOP is a Miata nerd, since I had red '94 for three years. I guess that means I was a Miata nerd who aspired to be, and became, a Miata geek. I'm neither now, but I still have fond memories of that car and smile a bit to myself when I see one in the streets.
Posted by: Kalli | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 01:30 PM
I guess I'm a geek, but I could hang with the nerds.
Posted by: Michael Farrell | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 01:41 PM
I know the two terms under discussion are mildly pejorative
Whatever! I'm both, and proud of it.
Posted by: Miserere | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 02:04 PM
Dear Mike,
Heh!
In the cultures I run in, "geek" is not even mildly pejorative. Just as the counterculture rebranded "freak" almost half a century ago (woooooaa, ancient history, man), the hacker culture (which grew directly out of the counter-) rebranded geek. And we regularly talk about 'geeking out' on some subject of another. In fact, I think DDB and I used that phrase at least once when we were out photographing yesterday.
I've run into (relatively) young geeks who don't even know where the word came from. Some of them have been rather shocked to find out.
pax / Ctein (who flies his geek flag proudly)
Posted by: ctein | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 02:28 PM
Quite possibly the greatest insult I've ever witnessed was a mod ending an online discussion that had devolved into a slapfight about technical minutiae by posting "Go take some pictures, you bunch of gormless nerds."
Posted by: Ray | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 02:35 PM
Your story of the teen reminded me of a classic Penny Arcade strip regarding anonymity and the web:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/
Posted by: Rob | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 02:38 PM
We forgot "Wonk". So would it be wonkish to discuss the various terms? Also seems like the diagram has an orientation dependency ie who you are might affect how you organize the diagram.
Posted by: Dennis Allshouse | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 03:06 PM
Hmmm; hadn't run into that diagram before, but it has its points. However, it doesn't terribly well support the useful distinction you quote (I don't think usage in my circles precisely follows either, but I think "geek" is socially superior to "nerd", which matches doing vs. talking).
Personally, I embrace the power of 'and'. I can be a photo nerd AND a photo geek. (Have so far made two "microplanet" mappings and edited a circular fisheye image from a photo expedition with Ctein to the Taylors Falls / St. Croix Falls area yesterday, so I think I can claim to like to do it.)
Posted by: David Dyer-Bennet | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 03:10 PM
And so it would seem that it's possible to be a nerd on many, many subjects, but a geek on very few.
Posted by: Joe | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 03:16 PM
LibraryThing did a similar comparison using the tag data (>75 million tags) on books:
http://www.librarything.com/blogs/librarything/2009/09/geeks-vs-nerds-hard-data/
Posted by: Christopher Holland | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 03:59 PM
I suppose it is no great surprise that non-conformist Nerds should fail to fulfill the first black condition, but since when did cyan and magenta make lilac?
Posted by: struan | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 04:21 PM
I don't have a dog in this- I just remember Milhouse explaining to some considerably larger character in the Simpsons that he was just a nerd- not a smart nerd.
Posted by: Stan B. | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 04:36 PM
Most talks about oysters come from those who never tested them.
Posted by: Siegfried | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 05:15 PM
Just saw a T shirt that said "Talk nerdy to me". Among camera collectors don't they call the nerdy types 'rivit counters'?
Posted by: john robison | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 05:25 PM
I recall when the term "nerd" first started back in the late 1960s at MIT. Then, it simply was a mildly self-deprecating term for young men who were highly proficient scientifically but socially awkward. Geek was unheard of back then.
Posted by: Joe Kashi | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 05:42 PM
Mike, I think anyone who can claim "When I worked at the model railroad magazine..." can also proudly call themselves geek AND nerd.
Posted by: Michel | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 05:57 PM
I think Sheldon on "The Big Bang Theory" is definitely right in the center of that little triangle on the Venn diagram.
Posted by: Bob | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 06:13 PM
I like this one better: http://xkcd.com/747/
Posted by: Arne | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 06:43 PM
Michel,
You'd think, but actually I'm not a model railroader--a deficiency which led to my demise in that job. So I can't qualify as a model railroad geek.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Johnston | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 07:37 PM
Both the nerd and the geek know who they are. The dork on the other hand doen't have a clue.
Posted by: MJFerron | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 08:04 PM
Echoing MHV's comment about living in an age of post-rarity, an excellent article about what it means for music & film buffs:
http://www.slate.com/id/2291532/
Posted by: Dan | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 08:34 PM
Nerd, geek, twit these are all subjective adjectives to describe those characteristics of those 'round us,
none of which we understand, nor care to.
Perhaps we are by dint of our surroundings,and the people we
encounter in person or by the
electronic wired world now
which we find ourselves
an often unwillingly participant.
Posted by: Bryce Lee in Burlington Ontario Canada | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 10:28 PM
This reminds me of a clever piece of writing by Umberto Eco in his novel 'Foucault's Pendulum' where one of his characters claims that everyone fits into one of four categories: cretins, fools, morons and lunatics. As you read the descriptions of each you find yourself analysing which one applies to you. (Chapter 10 if you want to read it)
Iain
Posted by: Iain | Friday, 29 April 2011 at 11:35 PM
Iain writes:
"This reminds me of a clever piece of writing by Umberto Eco in his novel 'Foucault's Pendulum' where one of his characters claims that everyone fits into one of four categories: cretins, fools, morons and lunatics."
Eco was placing a sly geeky reference to a famous quip by Heinrich Heine, the 19th century German poet, who disparaged his alma mater, the ancient university town of Goettingen, thus:
"The inhabitants of Goettingen are divided into Students, Professors, Philistines, and Cattle — four classes, however, that are anything but mutually exclusive. The Cattle are by far the most numerous."
And so back to the Venn diagram.
Posted by: Chris Lucianu | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 04:15 AM
My wife and I are always calling each other nerd & fool. We say it out in public down shopping aisle and across bar room floors exactly how Mr T would say it.
My wife in supermarket
Go get some apples fool!
Me
"Shut up nerd!"
My wife
"I pity the nerd that married this fool!"
Posted by: Sean | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 05:46 AM
I geek you! No, wait, that's grok. Sorry.
Posted by: MBS | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 11:37 AM
I think the main difference is that geeks know when it's socially required for them to shut up. Nerds NEVER shut up.
Exempli gratia: Me, I'm a photo geek. I'll seldom bring up anything photography-related when I'm out having a nice beer with my mates. One of those mates, however, is a complete mobile (as in phones, tablets, what have you) nerd. He, on the other hand, will not bloody well shut up about the latest phone he's testing unless we threaten him with physical violence.
Posted by: juze | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 01:59 PM
@Steve J
While the pun might have been intentional (in which case, "bazinga"), I believe you meant etymology rather than the study of bugs.
Posted by: Paul | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 03:01 PM
That was the funniest part. [g]
Mike
Posted by: Mike Johnston | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 03:29 PM
@Paul
Well Mike kindly corrected my other spelling mistakes, but this one he missed probably because it was quite amusing.
Guess I'll have to go count my toes.
Posted by: Steve Jacob | Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 09:25 PM
I don't think the etymology for "dork" is correct. Think more of the short form of Richard.
One word that seems to have gone out of fashion is "twerp". It appears to come from an actual person named T. W. Earp, who JRR Tolkein called "the original twerp" in one of his letters. As a Tolkien nerd, I should be able to quote *which* letter, but my reference is at home!
Posted by: KeithB | Monday, 02 May 2011 at 10:08 AM
Of course, ever since Bill Gates, nerdhood has become a goal...
Posted by: Trevor Small | Tuesday, 03 May 2011 at 09:14 PM