OT: We Hear from Martin Mull

"Writing about music is like
dancing about architecture."
                                   —Martin Mull

The other day we got to talking about the origin of this famous quotation when a commenter attributed it to Sonny Rollins (who has indeed said a great many wondrous and memorable things, but with a saxophone*).

As I sometimes do when things like this come up, I did a little poking around. According to Alan P. Scott, the earliest appearance of the phrase in print was in an October 1983 interview of Elvis Costello by Timothy White entitled "A Man Out of Time Beats the Clock," in Musician magazine no. 60, p. 52. However, Costello himself denies that he is the originator of the quotation, and attributes it to Martin Mull (right), the actor and comedian....

...Who, it turns out, is also a painter. So one of the lines I threw into the water was an email to Martin's art dealer, Carl P. Hammer of Carl Hammer Gallery in Chicago. Carl contacted Martin for me, and Martin confirmed that he is indeed the originator of the famous one-liner.

Not Frank Zappa
As happens to many famous quotations of uncertain provenance, this won't stop it from being attributed to many different people—among them, in this case, not only Elvis Costello, but Thelonious Monk, Steve Martin, William S. Burroughs, John Cage, and George Carlin. But at least now you know. (Instead of passing forward bad attributions, you could do as I sometimes used to do with mystery quotes, and attribute them to "not Frank Zappa.")

The most frequently encountered misattribution is to Laurie Anderson, because she used it in her 1986 video "Home of the Brave." Alan Scott thinks Laurie Anderson's riposte is itself quote-worthy: she added, "How about a square dance?"

Mike
(Thanks to Carl and Martin)

*This is off-off-topic, but if you're a jazz fan I highly recommend the RVG Complete version of "Night at the Village Vanguard." I've had the cooking single-disc version since forever, but the two-disc RVG version takes a useful couple of ticks upward in sound quality and adds great richness to the selection. Just make sure you get the two-CD version or the downloads labeled "RVG" and "Complete." And if you're not yet a jazz fan but would like some vintage, top-quality Sonny, I'd recommend starting with the short-but-oh-so-sweet "Saxophone Colossus" or the latest version of "On Impulse"—to get the correct versions, the former should say "Rudy Van Gelder Remasters" on it, and the latter should be from the Impulse "Originals" series. All three of these are available as MP3 downloads from Amazon or from iTunes.

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Original contents copyright 2010 by Michael C. Johnston and/or the bylined author. All Rights Reserved.

Comments

[Paul]

My favorite Frank Zappa quote about writing and music has always been his take on rock journalism: People who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read.

I think I got that right.

[Kent]

Mike,

I am humbled by your diligence.

Thank you so much for setting the record straight. This is one of my favorite music-related quotes and, judging by the number of times it seems to have been around the block, being attributed to a variety of sources on the way, it is admired and repeated by a significant number of other people as well.

So now we know. The provenance of one celebrated pearl of wisdom has been ascertained. That probably won't stop it from doing the rounds again, but I certainly won't forget.

So thank you Mike.
And thank you Martin Mull!

[Bruce Stinshoff]

Speaking of Elvis Costello, wasn't it David Lee Roth who opined that rock critics like Elvis Costello because most look like Elvis Costello?

[Jim Rohan]

Guitar player Adrian Belew once said that "talking about music was like whistling about chickens". I always loved that.

[Tim Baskerville]

Similar to your "not Frank Zappa" attribution is my practice of attributing any quote I'm not sure of (the source, that is) to the very-quotable Disraeli, as in "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." (Disraeli)

[John Taylor]

…as in "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." (Disraeli)
except of course that would be Mark twain who said that one… :) But Disreali can work as a default for me as well

[Mike Nelson Pedde]

I've always appreciated this one:

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

This is often attributed to Nelson Mandela, but was actually written by Marianne Williamson in her book 'Return to Love'. She did say once that she would have been honoured if Mr. Mandela had used her words, so may that count for something...

Mike.

[MJFerron]

I met Elvis Costello in the '70s. A club in Boston called the Rat. A lot of famous musicians would visit this basement punk rock hole after they played their gigs. The conversation was short but he was a very pleasant. IMO few were capable of mixing up their music like EC could.

Like Dylan and Paul Simon, Elvis Costello had something to say.

Wish I was into photography back then. (Sigh.) I could have had a fair amount of vintage/historical shots featuring a few name-brand folks.

[Robert Roaldi]

One of the funniest lines I've ever heard came from Martin Mull at a live show in Toronto close to 30 years ago. Someone in the audience in an upper balcony laughed loudly out of turn, just getting the previous joke I guess, Martin looked up and said, "Shoes too tight?"

[Lou Doench]

I've always hated that quote, mostly because you CAN dance about architecture... or about anything else.

[Rob Atkins]

"Tenor Madness" is no slouch, either.

[Kerry Glasier]

Sonny Rollins? Talking about Sonny Rollins recordings? There was never a better album than 'Way Out West', not never, nowhow. See!
KG
Cornwall.UK

[Ludovic]

One of the most-attributable people ever is, of course, Winston Churchill - so I've taken the habit of attributing unknown quotes to him. It even worked once with a quote about cellphone etiquette.

(I am of the opinion that anything Ms Anderson says is quotable, but maybe that's because I'm a nred.)

[Ludovic]

(Ooops. I'm a *nerd* who needs an editor.)

[Mani Sitaraman]

Martin Mull! How nice to see him mentioned; he is cool personified-Mr. Cool, I should say. One of the best American comedians to come to attention in the 1970s, but alas, little seen in the years since.

[Mike Johnston]

Ludovic,
I liked "nred" better.

Mkie

[Mike Johnston]

Rob and Kerry,
Truthfully, trying to recommend three disks by Sonny Rollins is like recommending three recordings of J.S. Bach. Okay, not that bad. But still, I think the *minimum* SR library would be...15 disks? Might could do....

Saxophone Colossus
Tenor Madness
A Night at the Village Vanguard (2 disks)
The Bridge
Thelonious Monk with Sonny Rollins
Newk's Time
Vol. 2
Sonny Rollins with the Modern Jazz Quartet
Way Out West
Thelonious Monk: Brilliant Corners
Rollins Plays for Bird
Sonny Side Up (I always recommend this album to people new to jazz)
Vol. 1
Sound of Sonny
Sonny Rollins on Impulse
Sonny Meets Hawk! (A bit oddball, but a personal fave--I love CH)
Plus Four
Our Man in Jazz
Miles Davis: Bags Groove
Now's the Time
Alfie

Well that wasn't so hard after all. Of course there are a bunch of individual cuts I'd also have to have, for instance "Global Warming" from the 9/11 concert, the version of "Bags Groove" from "The MJQ at Music Inn," "Sumphin" with Dizzy Gillespie and Sonny Stitt, and let's not forget "Waiting on a Friend" from the 1980 Rolling Stones album "Tattoo You"!

Oh and back to albums, Miles Davis's "Dig"...and Thelonious Monk's "Monk," almost forgot that.

And Clifford Brown's "More Study in Brown."

I didn't even get into the Max Roach sides.

Am I up to fifteen yet?

Mike

[Jon Mechan]

Speaking of the Village Vanguard, I can personally recommend the Wynton Marsalis, Live at the Village Vanguard set. I picked it up on iTunes for around £8, for something like 7hrs of live performance. Personally it was worth it for the 1hr - 1 track version of "In the sweet embrace of life" originally seen as the first 5 tracks of the 2nd CD of "In this house on this morning". It has some of the best 7/4 clapping you'll ever hear.

[Robert Billings]

I like this quote (actually a song title) from Martin Mull: "Let's not say au revoir, lets just say hors d'oeuvre".

[Kerry Glasier]

Mike,
The scatter gun aproach eh?
KG
Cornwall. UK

[Ross Smith]

Thanks Mike! I was going to ask him the very same question next time I saw him! And not only is he a painter, but an AWESOME one at that!!