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Tuesday, 22 November 2011

Comments

If that Citroen is a contender, I really don't want to see the winner. That is one ugly car.

I'm pretty sure that "Tubik" is French slang for foreskin... or at least it will be soon.

You weren't kidding about that car. Looks like a rhino on wheels with its horn cut off.

Mini Cooper S 2600lbs Power: 128 kW , 172 HP SAE @ 5,500 rpm; 177 ft lb , 240 Nm @ 1,600 rpm

2 doors

it does have cupholders though

I agree with your comment about modern car styling. A charity group was raffling a new Nissan crossover. I could not buy a ticket on the slim chance I might win the hideous thing...

No doubt Citroen used an Electrolux for inspiration.

Mike,
Thanks for the warning about the Citroen--yikes! How could they make it any uglier? The Edsel was a paragon of beauty by comparison.

As for the Subiyota, it's not my cup of tea. My fantasy would be an e-type Jaguar with all modern conveniences--power steering & brakes, awd, & great gas mileage --all somehow affordable.

What happened to automotive elegance?
M

I'm in the advertising business, and the Citroën looks like a perfectly normal result of what happens when a client changes the brief half way through the the project.

The Citroen is clearly from an alternate universe in which Volkswagen continued building Microbuses after their merger with Edsel.

Nothing new. Remember Toyota and Chevy venture commonly referred to as the toylet project?

I find the Tubik rather splendid.

Though it does seem to have been styled after a Gloucester Old Spot...
http://www.britishpigs.org.uk/breed_gs.htm

I you only had seen the Citroën Camionette, you would instantly see the simililarity in design between it and Tubik concept. That might help you understand that butt-ugly can turn out to be a real beauty! :-)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Citroen_H_Camionette_en_France.jpg

that citroën reminds me of the sleek stylings of the GM Futurliner... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Futurliner

Dealing with ugly cars, I am the proud owner of one of the (supposedly) ugliest car ever: the Fiat Multipla, to which I paid homage here: http://catetoblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/in-homage-of-fiat-multipla.html. It is the best car I ever had, and the most useful for a family of 6 like mine.

Furthermore, and believe it or not: I find it beautifully designed, and as a reviewer said once, I'm convinced if it had been marketed by a luxury German brand (say, Audi), it would be universally praised. Unfortunately it was released by Fiat, the poor's man cars in theory... and there you have it: people in the streets point at it while shouting "Look... what an ugly car!"

Toyota and Subaru combine to render a vehicle that is not all wheel drive? What is the point? Mr.2 was OK. Couldn't Toyota have done this on their own?

Mike,

There's very little than can surprise me anymore. But I hit the citroen link and an audible gasp (an intake) came from me as it came up and my eyes feasted upon that design. And then I started laughing.

Wow. Pontiac Aztek, eat your heart out!

As an aside, I loved many things about my little Triumph Spitfire. Not the wiring. But it was a blast to drive. Not fast either. I hope that they can keep the weight off of the Subiyota; it looks like a lot of fun (minus the wing).

Yeah, that 'Subiyota' isn't very inspiring.

Toyota just needs to resurrect the Supra!

Wow....that Citroën is something else...you probably should post the pic or my IT department will block your site for containing offensive content. Like the Subyota/ToRabu thang w/o the wing. Reminds me of my old Fiat 124 Sport coupe. Only better looking and much more durable. But a hoot to drive.

The Citroen Concept is actually a joint project with GM. In the US, this will be the 2014 Pontiac Aztek

By the way, Mike, considering your taste in cars, what do you think about 8th generation Euro Civic?
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/civic3door/#gallery

(The new one is godawful, though.)

That Citroen, somebody's been playing in a 3D program, that's all. :)

While we're talking about cars, I have mentioned Concept One, haven't I?

MIke,

I am completely with you. Lose the idiotic wing and give me the car! And I relly am not particularly interested in knowing the hp. Some of the most fun to drive cars ever made didn't even make 100 horses, and some not even half that (think Sprite, for instance, or Morris Mini).

The Citroen is...unusual. It very self-consciously echoes aspects of the post-war H-series Citroen van, a brilliant and characterful design that could almost be shorthand for "France" and stayed in production from the late 1940s to the early 1980s. As a long-term Subaru owner, I find the idea of a Subaru without 4-wheel drive equally...unusual.

Hum... I find the Citroen a lot more attractive than the Subiyota. The later is just a few gimmicky features put together to raise your testosterone level.
Not in the same category, but this kind of body; http://goo.gl/o1RoC has a more interesting language; controlled and unified, that seems to have nothing superfluous.

I often fail to understand why the presenters on Top Gear think some particular car is pretty or ugly. I do find that Citroën quite remarkably hideous, though.

I can stomach most Subarus (except the big spoiler ones) but a Toyota is the ultimate boring automotive purchase.
Would much rather have a Tubik than that bland, boring old fashionioned looking Toyaru.

Can't see much but one would only hope the Tubik front end has the front of a jet engine sticking out of it! Now that would be greeeaat!

Oh man, now that the kids are growing up it's time to trade in the Outback for dad's new car!!!

The Citroen would have looked a lot better if they had finished the job. It simply needs the missing wings right behind the rear hatch. Don't you think it looks like they copied the look of a the nose of a commercial airliner but didn't finish off the tail?

"Find me a 2,500 lbs. car that isn't a tinny econobox with a toy motor."

Mazda MX5?

And to think that oozing pustule on the behind of the great French car industry came from the same company that brought us the glorious DS4...

It must have been designed in August (when almost everyone in France is on holiday) by the skeleton crew of maintenance staff retained to keep the factory ticking over. There can be no other viable explanation.

I'm not blown away by the Subiyota, but given you say it's a real sports car, it could well be that the wing serves some purpose. Like how Audi screwed up and ignored the engineers and left off the spoiler. It was only when the cars went pirouetting down the autobahns they realised they'd goofed.

Anyway, if you want ugly cars, you have to look no further than when German companies think they know what 'typical' British cars should look like. You end up with pastiche horrors like the Mini Countryman, the new Mini Coupe thing and any post-Vickers Bentley. An 80s Bentley box was at least honest. These modern things are even worse than our own abominations of the '70s, such as the Allegro estate.

I'm with you on everything you wrote except for the Tubik. I hadn't heard of the Tubik concept till today but I love it! It's like an angry little boar turned into a van. It also owes a lot to the Citroën Type H, which I also love.

If the recent Car & Driver early test drive is any indication, Subaru did virtually all the work on the car. I'm a big Subaru fan and the lovely BRZ has me considering trading in my current STI... but I probably won't, since I have to haul kids and I live in the snowbelt. Regardless, it is a very, very pretty car, and any comparisons to a Mini or other FWD car are way off base - this is a proper RWD sports car, with the engine very low and very far back in the chassis.

That wing is just for the concept car, the normal BRZ will be wingless, and even if there is an eventual STI version, I'm sure it won't have a wing anything like that!

No, wait. On second thoughts, I reckon it must be telescopic. See how the cab section fits neatly inside the passenger area and the nose-cone is tucked unobtrusively into the cab? I bet that, above a certain speed, it will gently extend itself and become something that's much more like a cruise-missile.

It's a brilliant concept, designed to appeal to the sort of man who has to get his shiny new penis-substitute past the One Who Holds The Purse Strings. It's an easy sell to the wife as a utility vehicle but just wait until you drive it fast. Citroen could be on to a winner here...

Or not. :o)

Don't forget that first series Fiat Multipla:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla

The wing is over the top for me too. Overall the styling seems a bit heavy handed but not a horror show like so many modern cars. The aesthetic intent is right ... :-)

That might just be my second Subaru. Just for the weekends.
For the record the ugliest car ever built is the Pontiac Aztek. I'm not sure I got the spelling right. I was so repulsed every time I looked at the thing I never actually saw the badge.

We may still thank our stars that pigs can't fly, but Citroen clearly figured out how to put wheels on them. Hmmm ... I may have to apologize to the pig.

"Overall the styling seems a bit heavy handed but not a horror show like so many modern cars."

Godfrey,
Ditto that.

Mike

As the past owner of a 78 Toyota Celica, 2 MR-2's, and currently own an 1984 Celica Supra I am quite eagerly awaiting this car. It may be the first time I have bought a brand new Toyota (Scion) performance car in over 20 years. Light, fun to drive, decent gas mileage, looks good (sans wing) and reasonable price all equal a home run to me. I am eagerly awaiting the official release at the Tokyo Motor Show. Then to see and drive one.

Imagine the Citroën Tubik MPV painted brown with big floppy dog ears and you got yourself the van for the future remake of Dumb and Dummer.

Well at least it is rear wheel drive with a rear wing.

I always wonder about the front wheel drive cars with the big wing in the back.

-Hudson

Regarding the embedded video, that man looks like a future winner of the Darwin Awards and that's probably the very near future.

Mike

I always enjoy your comments about cars. I would like to add that the Lotus Elise is a great car (and not a toy) weighing 1950 Lbs. I'm all for designing light and safe cars using modern engineered materials.

Tom Thorsteinson

"I am eagerly awaiting the official release at the Tokyo Motor Show. Then to see and drive one."

Mark,
Ditto that.

Mike

It's a real shame we've gotten to the point where we think a 2500 pound car is "light". It ain't.

I often long for my long gone 2050 pound 1969 BMW 2002. BMW should have made a retro version of that instead of the Mini. A 2002 with modern reliability would be my dream toy.

By the way, I liked the Citroën. I think it is wayout cool looking but I wouldn't buy one.

I spent some of my misspent youth taking hard corners (as a passenger) in my friend's two-door Datsun B110, also know as the Nissan Sunny. Around 1600 pounds, disc brakes, McPherson struts, 1200 cc... a lot of fun.

Saw the Toyota already, camouflaged like - hmmm, don't have a word for it. It also has some kind of wing, but nothing like that Subaru. Pictures at the German 'Spiegel Online' Site at http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-75149.html with one of them showing the head of engineering.

I still blame Chris Bangle for single handedly ruining automobile aesthetics for decades.

I think that Citroën is supposed to have all the styling cues to remind you of an H van,

which I think was the result of someone saying "make it look like an airplane" and the designer thinking immediately of a Tri-Motor Ford

The trouble with "retro" styling is that it doesn't work if the viewer doesn't recognize the source.

"What's past is prologue"

Chad,
He certainly made Bimmers look like Pontiacs, that's for sure....

Mike

although that citroën concept is about as repulsive an eyesore as you say, it's exempt from the ugliest car awards as it's not a production machine. pontiac and their hideous aztec still rule the roost ....

The Citroen concept car looks a lot like my overweight Jack Russell. As for the spoiler on the Subiyota; like all other spoilers it's perfect for supporting sheets of drywall strapped to the roof.

Second the Camionette reference, but for personal best choice, an old Peugeot 404 pickup, or ute: I like lines.

Mini Cooper? Honda Civic?

These are not fun cars, these are Front Wheel Drive cars, they just can't be fun. Without the ability to control the car with the throttle, you are losing most of the fun.

I do not care for the Subiyota wing either, why can't they design a nice wing, like the ones on some old Toyota Celicas which participated in the Rally Championship, many years ago?

As for the Citroen, I just didn't dare to open the link.

Mike, might want to also wait and see what the next generation MX-5 brings. Mazda has stated they want to bring the weight back down closer to the original (the current mazda 2 weighs a tad less than the current miata!) coupled w/ their new skyactive stuff should provide for a fun car to whip around.

I do wish manufacturers would build more small rwd lightweight fun cars. Under 25k loaded MSRP.

Citroen, designed for the US market?
Rex

What about this 'car' (I use the term very loosely)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/classiccars/8876950/Classic-Zundapp-Janus.html

245cc of chick magnet...

"Without the ability to control the car with the throttle, you are losing most of the fun."

John,
Ditto to that too!!

Mike

"might want to also wait and see what the next generation MX-5 brings."

Linh,
I hate to say this, as a confirmed Miataphile, but I'm afraid there won't be a next gen MX-5. The sales numbers have really been in the doldrums and Mazda hasn't been looking all that strong either lately, and I just don't see how Mazda will be able to justify bringing an ND to market. I've discussed this ad nauseam on various forums, heard all the opinions, but to me the handwriting on the wall doesn't look good. Hope I'm wrong.

Mike

"Citroen, designed for the US market?"

What, you're blaming this on us?!? That's a stretch.

Mike

That's high on the weirdometer even by the impressive standards of Citroën.

As for the Subiyota, take the stupid ricer wing off and we'll talk. It looks like something a 17 year old would attach to their ratty 1990-something Accord because they didn't get the memo that these things stopped being cool around the time *they* stopped watching "Barney".

The rest of the car looks like something I'd be happy to be seen in so long as the viewer wasn't a cop wielding a speed gun.

Citroen have produced some of the most innovative and interesting cars ever - DS, 2CV, Traction Avant - just give it time, we'll learn to love it!
Fiat Multipla was my first car (1960s model) cost me £6 in 1973 - wish I still had it, and the Mini Cooper which replaced it!

I sure hope there is an next gen MX-5. I'm just waiting for the kids to get out of the house before I buy one. I've got about 5 years. The BRZ could be a good stop-gap car for me. I've thought about an STi, but I can't stand the look of the thing's wing.

I bought myself a 2011 Miata with every toy known to man on it. It is a great little car and the handling capabillities are way beyond my driving skills. It has no spoiler on it. The spoilers on all these modern little cars would have no affect at all at speeds they are capable of achieving. As a friend says these spoilers would have no effect even if you dropped the car out of an airplane to achieve the highest speed possible.

I just look at them as deluxe trunk lid handles

Robert

I found a picture of the Citroen's interior at
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/citroen/2011-citroen-tubik-ar115554/picture415278.html.
Talk about dropping acid..(not that I have).

Robert Spoecker,
Congrats on your baby! You will have a blast with it.

All the same, I highly recommend you look into this--best mod you can buy for an '11 Miata. Ask around.

Mike

The Citroen brings to mind a jaguar. The animal, not the car.

Slightly OT: Some people I know have a Ubarus. That's right, a car with a spelling error. I think they got a 1000 Swiss Frank discount for that. And they have a quite unique car of course.

maybe I'm seeing things but it sure looks like somebody at Subaru/Toyota didn't get the Alfa 8C for Christmas they wanted. I wonder how this Subie looks done up in bright freaking red. Nice I suspect.

Sure the Tubik is ugly but it reminds me of a Cybershot (no offense intended). Does it have technological features of interest? Citroën used to be an innovator. I grew up with two DS 19's followed by a DS 21. They were front wheel drive, had collapsible steering wheels, hydraulic suspensions and a "Citromatic" (clutchless) shift -- all in the late fifties and sixties. The brake was a smallish button nearly embedded in the carpeting. The European models had an inner set of headlights that turned with the steering wheel. In coldish weather you could crank start them which was a real benefit since you generally had to. Changing a rear tire required removing the fender. All in all, exasperating but strangely endearing cars with personality.

Marius

Why wait for the SubToy?
Find a low mile, adult owned
HONDA S2000!
It does everything you could want and
its a ball to drive.

cheers
Joe

I can relate Mike. This is why I'm driving a E36 M3. Love this car. Pretty sure it was named the best handling car by a major mag under 100k in 1999. A joy to drive.

Perfect inline 6 and telepathic steering with a little more power and space than a Miata.

I've oft repeated the quote "if you aren't risking your gear or your ass, the shot probably isn't worth taking" - but that dude has really taken it to heart.

As far as cars go, I gave up on 'em when I realized I didn't have the eye/hand coordination required to drive a Superbird in the way it was intended to be. (When I was in high school, muscle cars (even ones rare today) could be had casually and cheaply.) I drive a mini-van.

Wow... That was painful.

Funny, but I thought that guy in the video was in more danger from the second car than he was from the first one.

Don't you hate to see the spinning rear wheel in the "wing" photo?

"All the same, I highly recommend you look into this--best mod you can buy for an '11 Miata. Ask around."
=======================
Or this:
http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4539&parentid=0&stocknumber=14-16205%20%201990-93

(Though the new Miatas may have much better brakes than the NA (1990) that I had. That was the main disappointment I had with my car - poor stopping, even though a lightweight car.)

That Citroen van is enough to make you lose your lunch. Consider the source, though.

Now here's a minivan I wouldn't mind having:
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/renault/1994-renault-espace-f1-ar34982.html

The Subiyota reminds me of an RX-8... Miatas are fun but at the time my sister had one (which I borrowed) I had a 900kg 135hp 1.6l Lancia Delta HF (turbo). Yes, front wheel drive. Feel the power in your hands ;-) The handling and feeling of power of that car was just in a different league from the Miata. Or any other car I drove since. I'd second the smaller Lotuses. Never drove one but the specs look just right.

Re: Tubik - it looks like something is being born

Re: 2500# car - as a previous owner of the both the first and second generation Miatas, I suggest looking at certified pre-owned Honda S2000. The redline is intoxicating and gearshift sublime. It will bite you, which is part of the fun.

Re: Baja - the man is clearly training for this year's Darwin awards.

At least the Citroën isn't actually in production and on the road. Unfortunately, the Nissan Cube is.

I'm surprised, as photographers, that nobody noticed that the reflections in the driver-side window of the Citroen look a little like a masked cartoon bandit.

Hmmm ...
I actually like the Citroen better, go figure ....

Citroën. Well from those I have seen it's about what I would expect.

Please stop writing about cars. I have done without one for a dozen years, but every time you post something, I am terribly tempted.

"He certainly made Bimmers look like Pontiacs, that's for sure...."

Mike,
Which wasn´t so that difficult, to be honest, as bimmers and mercs are some of the blandest cars ever, along with "middle of the road" Toyotas and Chevys specifically designed to act as comfort-food:

Makes you feel better rather than urge you to buy it.

For the very rest, I´m glad that someone is trying, at least, something different [that said for the Citroën].

Citroën is still the only car manufacturer that is capable of producing a car that can gloss over the city, not even britons or germans have ever been able to do so.

La DS, the CX and the C6 are still the only cars that can waft on the pavement.

And yep, aesthetics are much more objective than other practical sciences. Else, marketing people will go unemployed.

And yep, we do buy nowadays the car for the badge, rather than for the car itself. For the very driving experience, 99.95% of the time all cars behave dramatically undifferent.

"At least the Citroën isn't actually in production and on the road. Unfortunately, the Nissan Cube is."

Not trying to be a troll, that is, but I think that it is actually the only car saying that "Yep, I do have an opinion and a taste, at least".

Surprisingly, people driving Cube´s, Multiplas and other weirdos do not look at other cars on the other lane [never thought of that?].

It is the same situation as Saab and Volvo pre 2003: all their drivers have a very weird face in the very sense of "I got a secret I´m so not telling you about".

Might be the reason why Saabs are the choice of dentist [in other parts of Europe, they were Talbots].

Is it the age group on this forum? My nephew, neice and all their friends think its way cool and funky. A new age VW camper!

The Citroen is startling surely, but actually very interesting. Certainly not boring. Why does a car have to be beautiful? It's a form of transport. I would love to see one in real life because some of the design features are truly innovative.

Unlike the Toybaru - another cloned Japanese sports car which has no innovations at all and a rear end that would have dog owners reaching for their plastic bags....

OK so my taste in cars is not conventional, but then I am interested in design - not styling. To me something that is functionally right looks good however strange and unfamiliar it appears at first. As a one time owner of an old Citroen 2CV and a current owner of a Skoda Roomster I can say that.

To me, something that is styled for effect is lazy and therefore unappealing. Anything which betrays its functional purity in its style on the other hand can be very satisfying. Others have mentioned the Fiat Multipla which is one of the most effective family cars ever built and very underrated. My Roomster is another more compact example. Utilitarian and amazingly effective. Owning one can be enormously satisfying.

The French at least are brave enough to experiment. Sometimes they are ahead of their time. The Renault Vel Satis for example was a spectacular failure, but the Renault Megane was a relative success despite very challenging styling (for a hatch). A conservative vs a young audience perhaps?

Its beautiful its like an aeroplane.

"OK so my taste in cars is not conventional, but then I am interested in design - not styling. To me something that is functionally right looks good however strange and unfamiliar it appears at first. [...] To me, something that is styled for effect is lazy and therefore unappealing. Anything which betrays its functional purity in its style on the other hand can be very satisfying."

Steve,
You had me laughing here. You're saying this in SUPPORT of the Citroen and AGAINST the Subaru?!? Switch them around and your statements begin to make sense. The Subiyota is actually one of the first cars I've heard of in a while where engineering took precedence, with the body simply designed after the fact to cover the mechanicals. That's the opposite of how it usually occurs today, when the stylists first tell the engineers how it's going to look and then the engineers work around that.

"Masuda [Toshio Masuda, Subaru senior project general manager for product planning] goes even further to assert that the engineering of the AS1 [the BRZ/FT-86 project] dictated its styling, rather than vice versa as with most sports cars. Toyota’s designers shaped the body but only after the hard points of the chassis, powertrain, and passenger compartment were fixed by Subaru." (From the linked C&D article.)

The Subaru is the one in which form follows function, not the other way around. The Citroen is yet another exercise in empty style first, style last, style only. Daring to be different? No. Just being different willfully, for the sake of being different.

And that's no special purview of the French. All car companies indulge in "concept cars." It's how they get their designers to stretch their imaginations--and how they draw the eyeballs at car shows.

Mike

Larry Gebhardt (same Larry as I went to school with?) - you must not have been paying attention to the STI very closely. :) From 2008-2010, the STI was only available as a hatchback, with a not-very-big lip spoiler in line with the roof. The huge spoiler only reappeared with 2011, but you now have a choice between the 5-door (little spoiler) and the 4-door (huge spoiler.) Also, back somewhere about 2006/2007, they sold a limited number (500? 1000?) of the old coupe STis as "Limited"s, with a tiny, tiny lip spoiler on the trunklid, along with a leather interior. (Bad choice - the Alcantara is much nicer than leather IMHO!) The next-gen WRX/STI will be built on a new chassis, so who knows how they'll look.

Having had a 2005 STi and moved to a 2008 STI, I can say that the big wing on 2005 was amusing but horrible for visibility. I drove a new 2011 coupe with the redesigned wing and it's much better for visibility.

Back to the BTZ - comparisons to the RX-8 are probably valid, but the RX-8 never quite did it for me, which is a shame as I just love the older RX-7s - all three generations. The Lotus Elise, which spectacular, is a mid-engined 2-seater with a bare aluminum interior - it's not built to be an everyday driver like the BRZ. If you're willing to put up with its demands, you can pick up a second-hand Elise for ridiculously cheap now, though - I'd be very tempted if I didn't already have my Elan. :) You could pay the same or less than you'd pay for a new BRZ and have an exotic-looking car from a legendary marque with some of the best handling ever.

I think there are strong rumors that the BRZ will have its top chopped before long - at that point, it will be more valid to compare it to the Miata and S2000, especially if it loses the back seat in the process.

One final note - I'm very disappointed that Toyota is selling this as a Scion - as one who's hurtling towards middle age, I don't want my car to look almost exactly the same as ANY Scion, a line consisting of universally F'UGLY cars built for first-time drivers who are more interested in radios and wheels than how the car drives. It's a small consolation that, from what I've seen so far, the Subaru will easily be the better-looking of the two.

Whoops, one more thoughts - when I think car designers, two names immediately pop into mind - Virgil Exner and Chris Bangle. Exner because I love his work (the late '50s Mopars) and Bangle because I, like everyone else, hate his work. :) I have never been much of a BMW fan but those Bangle BMWs - bleah!

"when I think car designers, two names immediately pop into mind - Virgil Exner and Chris Bangle. Exner because I love his work (the late '50s Mopars) and Bangle because I, like everyone else, hate his work. :) I have never been much of a BMW fan but those Bangle BMWs - bleah!"

Historically I can think of many, from Bill Mitchell of GM (as foreign a sensibility from mine as I can imagine, but consistently a recognizable artist) to Giorgio Giugiaro (in fact an article about car designers would be an interesting topic), but one I like presently is Walter de'Silva of Volkswagen Group. He's a designer who has a firm sense of style but also an adult sense of restraint--no "try too hard" designs from his shop. Seldom any gratuitous detailing either. He considers his masterpiece to be the Audi S5, which is telling--it's a very classic, almost too-restrained coupe that looks MUCH better in person than in pictures...showing, to me, that he has a fine grasp of the difference between reality and paper; he was actually thinking in real space and full size when he conceived that car. I'd love to find out more about the guy.

Mike

Hey wait, I thought Scions were edgy. Is "edgy" old already?

Mike,
Walter de Silva is the responsible, single handledly, of ruining one or two of VAG´s brands: SEAT and almost Sköda.

And no, in no way the A5 is a good piece of work. Current Audi´s have the very same problem of an old woman with just too much plastic surgery: still for elderly people, I guess.

The best work of de Silva is sitll property of Alfa Romeo, though.

Still, God is in the details. But Devil is in the concept, and I´d worry more about the Devil than God.

Inaki,
You can certainly disagree with me, but I disagree with you....

Mike

OOT Warning this is not about cars or photography. I went to a talk by a representative of a Norwegian shipyard – Ulstein who produce Oilfield Supply Vessels and Anchor Handling Tugs. Their latest vessels look this:
http://www.bourbon-offshore.no/default.asp?menu=16&id=27
They call this their X-Bow.
He said that they wanted to generate some “excitement” at a trade fair so decided to call in some designers to come up some “cool” looking ship pictures to hopefully generate some editorial coverage. When their “real” ship designers saw the pictures they said “We’ve been thinking about a bow like that, we think it’ll improve performance in heavy weather” and sure enough it did. They now have a bit of a reputation for their concept ships but they have found that crazy designs can inspire their suppliers to come up with alternatives and have made improvements in the handling of exhaust gases following another concept ship model.
So concept products do release ideas inside and outside a company – perhaps camera designers could try it?

It's a Subaru and the big wing is so Subaru. STI and big wing are synonymous. Had a WRX. It was a blast.

If a road car needs a wing to keep it planted on the public road, it is being driven by a dangerous driver at well in excess of speed limits and in a manner likely to endanger other people's lives. Even a Ferrari won't start spinning out when driven with respect for other road users, and at or less than the legal limit.

Correlation between people who install a wing on their car specifically for track days? About 0.01%. Correlation between road cars with wings being driven by dangerous fools? About 99.9%. Drivers of cars with wings on the public road are about as welcome as herpes.

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