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Friday, 12 September 2008

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I'm sure someone else has made this comment already, but at the DPReview link they have a roadmap for a 20mm f/1.7 lens. I think, if the lens specifications are "right" and the production camera reviews overall as well as the hype, I may be getting one of these in lieu of any new big lens purchase.

Check the lens roadmap at DPReview, there's a 20/1.7 coming in early '09. My digital Canonet awaits!

I also see their claim, that they have made contrast detect AF performance very close to the low-end SLR style focusing. This is interesting news indeed! If it works!

Now, if I only could put my Pentax primes on it I'd be lining up outside the store as we speak. I'd take the blue one, I think.

A niggle: it does have a built-in flash. A waste of weight and space, I agree, but I guess not many users are willing to bring separate flash unit along.


Also: I know there will be an adapter for 4/3rds lenses, but am I mistaken in thinking that the short flange distance should be possible to create adapters that would allow you to use Micro 4/3rds cameras with any lens that doesn't require electronic aperture control?

Best,
Adam

What I was kind of hoping for from the m4/3 system was something semi-equivalent to my other G1 (Contax). Here's hoping somebody is willing to take a chance on producing an equivalent to that 28/45/90 lens system. (Or I'd settle for a digital Ikon too, but I'm not holding my breath).

Now a few Leica primes please!

The road map points to a 20mm 1.7 prime next year. It will also take the Oly 25mm pancake, but via an adapter which I guess defeats the pancake design a bit.

But what I find truly interesting is that Panasonic seem to have done what Oly had promised with the original 4/3. There appear to be some very innovative and useful features that no current DSLR can match.

Of course the big question is how much? But I am very tempted, even though it is a totally different system for me. I could see one of these with the standard lens being my "go everywhere" camera.

Cheers

Colin

Argh,

Another little BIG camera. If Olympus follows suit in terms of body design, I can pretty safely say I am done.

Designing around ergonomics is a good thing only to a point. Maybe there is a whole troop of 3 fingered designers working the camera industry.

I wonder if these come with a key ring?

Sheesh

Re primes: according to the "World Exclusive Preview", a 20/1.7 is planned for 2009. (There's a lens "road map" buried in there somewhere.) You could also use the Zuiko 25/2.8 or the Panasonic 25/1.4 with an adaptor.

I'm looking forward to finding out what pictures from Micro 4/3 will look like in the corners, with a lens that short, that close to a sensor that large, and at that price point. (Perhaps ominously, DPReview says nothing about expected pricing, but it has to be a lot less than the M8, the one previous camera that I know of to take this problem seriously.) I'm not predicting they'll be bad. I just want to find out.

The groom is holding that bottle of champagne in kind of an interesting position, isn't he? Very subtle.

Not sure if it is world exclusive, but Camera Labs have a preview as well.

That is a cute looking little camera! It is said an image is only as good as the lens that captures it. One hopes it gets the benefit of some decent quality glass.
Best wishes,

This camera looks very nice indeed. The 14-45 is a little slow but OIS might compensate up for that. Can't wait to see a full review. If the build quality is on par with my 40D and the image quality is good I'll be the first in line to buy one.

Doesn't look that much smaller than a D40 to me.

I'm still after something G9-sized with a good sensor.

Hmmmm.
Lots of pixels for the sensor size?

Anyway, on a DPR thread someone found a body price in Japan, and it converted as $745 USD.

Yes, a couple primes (Leica perhaps). The Leica 25mm fits already, with out the adaptor?

I'd like to see all those scene modes gone, myself, but for marketing reasons I guess they have to be there in this model.

Will be interesting to see the later models.
My current "walk-around" is a Nikon D60 with my old 35mm f/2 AF (manual focus on the D60), so for me, right now, no compulsion on this one (thankfully:).

1001 Noisy Cameras are saying prices will be:

* 80,000 yen body
* 90,000 yen G1 with the 14-45
* 125,000 yen G1 with the 2-lens kit
* 45-200mm lens (H-FS045200) on its own: 49350 yen
* October 31st release in Japan

Where 90,000 yen is about 470 GBP. Which I think is fairly reasonable.

Not a fan of the design, but I understand why they made the first camera of the line this way. Lets hope there are some more streamlined bodies in the works. Still might buy this one though, as functionally it's just what I've been after, and I can't wait for the 40mm-e prime, as that's my most used focal length.

"I'm still after something G9-sized..."

psu,
Wait for it. It's coming.

Mike J.

I'm a little worried that the sensor is exposed every time you swap lenses.

I saw an MSRP of 90K yen with the kit lens (equivalent to US$840), so presumably it won't be more than that in the US. Not cheap, but good enough for me. I'll see whether Olympus introduces a body soon, but as of tonight, my Nikon D40 is on eBay.

I'm already dreaming: my wife can stop complaining about having to look through a viewfinder, I can get a D3-sized viewfinder in a small camera, and there's that 20mm f/1.7 waiting in the wings. And I can't wait to see Panasonic's 7-14mm...

It is not quite what I expect, it does look tiny and might well give very high IQ/Size ratio.

One thing though, the sensor is VERY exposed when one changes lenses. I wonder if/how they plan to minimize dust? Of course if one seldom or never change a lens then the question is moot ;)

The camera is small all right, but the lenses are oddly not much smaller than similar 3/4 or APS-C zooms (e.g. by Olympus or Pentax).

Wasn't that the main promise of m4/3?
Is that a side-effect of the in-lens stabilisation?

And, more importantly, when will we get blue and red lenses to got with the body? ;-)

Lilianna,
You can read about the dust-reduction system at the Imaging-Resource link near the end of the post. It's quite interesting, actually.

Mike J.

I think the shutter speed preview feature is kinda neat. Not because it will totally change the way I take photographs but because it means that the designers are thinking of new ways to take advantage of the digital medium. I keep having this day dream about a live exposure feature on a digital camera. Not live view but live exposure. Stick your camera on a tripod for some long exposure night shots, put it in bulb mode, then open the shutter and watch as the image materializes on the rear LCD screen. When everything looks right, close the shutter and you've got your perfect exposure without any guessing as to what the right shutter speed is. Pretty limited, I know, in the actual number of situations where it would be useful, but I could entertain myself for a while with something like that.

All in all, it looks promising.

Put a pancake lens on it and loose the grip and its just about G9 sized. I don't know Mike, the DMD dream is getting just a little bit closer. ch

One thing that is really upsetting me about the e420 I bought recently is that the focus ring on the 25mm pancake turns round and round and round without any markings. I still haven't figured out which way to turn it to get to infinity! I have the feeling that this problem won't be addressed in the future. Ugh. I think I am sticking to digital point and shoots and medium format.

Horribly conservative design, I thought. I mean, it's not an SLR, so why make it look like one?
I suspect putting OIS in the lens bulks the lens out a bit. I'd rather have image stabilisation in the body and smaller lenses.

I'll be interested to see what Olympus come up with.

This is utterly stupid. How for Goodness' sake could they drop in-body stabilization?? The only advantage in doing it in the lens is, that it also stabilizes the image in an optical viewfinder, but when you already go through the sensor? That's insane. It only manages to make lenses bigger and more expensive!

And it's even worse: what good is compatibility with lenses for the original 4/3 standard, when none of them are stabilized? Hmm ... seems like a first class funeral to me.

How many cameras and electronics are going to be named Gxx??
Couldn't they get a little more creative with the naming?

Not gonna get fooled by Panasonic again. The best cameras wrapped around the worst sensors.

Mike
Was hoping to hear your impressions on the natural light sample, especially regarding bokeh.
My take on these is that within a couple of years we should be looking at this type of camera for less than $500, and I would rather carry two than change lenses. I would think a fixed lens unit could be a bit more compact and less expensive, and dust free,etc. Maybe a bit faster as well.

Hey, the "...stylish Lumix DMC-G1" (press release language) comes in three colors! Red for girls, blue for boys, and black for PROs!

Per spec it's about 60g lighter than the previous self-proclaimed "smallest dslr in the world", the "fat" Four-Thirds Oly 420 released last May.

Cute!

BTW, did you ever see a new camera announced that didn't feature exactly the same silky babe shots as samples?

Panasonic has been big on OIS ... if Oly produces a compact body with built in stabilization, that promised 20/1.7 could make this the digitam Minolta 7sII I've been waiting for.

Argh... still not pocketable. This is definitely a step in the right direction though. I was really hoping for something more along the lines of the L1 design and I'm a little worried that the 20mm prime is going to be largish in order to achieve an f1.7 max aperture. We'll see. If ever there were a camera platform crying out for pancake prime lenses this would be it.

Looks pretty terrific to me - maybe not this model exactly, but the possibilites it looks like Panasonic and Oly are heading for. Now if the Oly version is this size, and has in body stabilization with slightly smaller lenses, it would be just about perfect.

Exciting. But I associate Panasonic cameras with high noise and poor image processing, which have, time and again, undermined what appear to be superior optics. I hope that's changed, or that at least the RAW mode is very raw.

Weight, weight don't tell me. My Nikon D40 with kit lens is 25 ounces and the new G1 weighs in at 22 ounces with its comparable kit lens. No mirror and a smaller sensor only save 3 ounces? Looks like the 9.3 ounce LX3 is going to be my new carry around serious compact.

Reading the Imaging Resource article shed a lot of light on this camera, especially issues of size and such.

Actually, I was quite taken with the blue version of this camera and if they were to introduce a scaled down version of the L1 (sans handgrip bulge), say in a Bessa R-sized package, I'd be on it like stink on a monkey.

Thanks Mike J, it does appear they've addressed dust removal. One more thing, since there is no touchy mirror and such, it is much easier to get to the sensor to clean it!

Regarding Dave Kee's point: I'm generally happy with my D40 too. But I'd like it even more if it had a bright D3-sized viewfinder, a high-res articulating display, the possibility of a tiny 40mm-equivalent f/1.7 lens, and a 14-24mm-equivalent on the lens road map for next year. Sadly, it has none of those things, and I want them all, so the D40 is off to eBay.

Ted said: Now a few Leica primes please!

Note the lack of Leica's name on the lenses. Seems Leica is not part of this new consortium. At least not in name...

The original press paper only mentioned Olympus and Panasonic. No Leica and no Sigma.

Hmm

It seems that the size of G1 has some room for shaving off - for example, a non-articulating display would save space. And probably the engineers are already at work on more radical designs, this one reminds a lot of traditional SLRs.

But no video recording?? And it seems that old 4/3 lenses don't offer much when used with the G1. So, what about macro photography for example?

I started thinking about an Olympus version and realized that they'll use it to force me to by XD cards. I want the SDHC version with the Olympus in-body anti-shake and weather sealing, with the Panasonic EVF in the Ricoh articulating detachable box, with the Sigma Foveon sensor, with bluetooth connectivity so I can use my cell phone as a wireless remote and the cell phone's GPS for geotagging, with a solid (liquid) state LCD shutter, and with an aperture ring at the back of the lens. Oh well. With less whining and more working, I reckon I'll be happy I'm warm and dry when I sleep.

No video? That's puzzling. Why not? The Nikon D90 is first DSLR to capture HD video, and I'm sure that within 24 months almost every new DSLR will do the same. Photographers who don't shoot video now will try it because it's there, and most will discover they really like it.

I'm curious to learn why Panasonic chose to omit this capability.

Interesting to read DPReview's take on this:

"The Micro Four Thirds standard - and the Panasonic G1 - represents the first complete break with legacy SLR technology going back well over half a century, and as such represents an important moment in digital photography's short history. It would be fair to describe it as the first truly 'all digital' interchangeable lens camera"

While this is a significant break with legacy SLR technology, I think it is still a short way down the evolutionary path, a path that started in the chemical/mechanical era and is now in the digital/mechanical era. To my mind, the ultimate digital SLR camera will do away with the mechanical altogether.

Think of the mechanical pieces that are left: primarily the shutter and the lens. Both require precision assembly and add significantly to overall cost.

The ultimate digital endgame would be a camera that dispensed with lenses and F stops and shutters altogether. Think of a simple sensor that continually sampled light with software that allowed a model of the light hitting the sensor to be frozen in time. Bolt on an in-camera computer where things like focal point and depth of field could be manipulated from the information in the sample after the fact and the photographer could really get creative. Ready, shoot, aim would be a reality.

Now that would break the legacy mold once and forever.

cooool, this is what the most people want. The most users of Digicams worldwide are not Pros, Semi Pros or Amateurs. But most "rookie"-users have heard of the limitations of a small sensor, even though they have no deeper understanding of photography. Also in their heads is that a DSLR is too big, too difficult,too expensive. So this m4/3 is the real bridge to all those millions. A revolution? They get their "iA" (that works really good in the Lumix compacts, doesn't it?) and an easy to use tool for pictures they stunned on in former times. Yes a revolution. It's completely ok that Panasonic is doing the G1 layout and marketing in a good mixture of more mainstream and bites for the serious ones with a prime on the roadmap. They want to sell in big sums. If this works we will get the serious layouts of the m4/3rd bodies very soon. Maybe from Olympus...So people go out and order a G1. A red one for your daughter, a blue one for your son, a black one for you.

re: smaller body

Hmm... remember the supposedly artist rendition? If the said artist got one spec right (the 12MP sensor), what else could he have "guessed" right?

"I'm curious to learn why Panasonic chose to omit this capability."

Possibly because it's akin to carving a turkey with a Swiss Army knife? Just a thought.

Mike J.

Presumably the 20/1.7 in the photo is just a mockup, since it says 52mm diameter, but doesn't actually have a filter thread.

That 20mm f1.7 in the photo looks like a mock up. Olympus should put the LiveMOS in vertically and call it the "New Olympus Pen" for all us half frame nuts. I'd love to claim that idea as my own but Patrick Dempsey posted it first a few days ago on P-Net. Interesting times for sure. If I follow my usual pattern I'll pick up a used one in about four years. I just now jumped into digital with a E300. I don't even have a regular digital AF lens for it, just using my OM primes from 24 to 200 with an adapter.

Wow, interest times are coming. I'll wait for a more compact, lightweight and cheaper option comes out, but my dream camera is approaching for sure!!!!

Perhaps this is the natural successor to my ageing Nikon Coolpix 8700 at last. As others have said, some interesting times ahead for gear junkies!

1. they probably dropped electronic stabilization for the simple reason that optical stabilization produces cleaner results
( which stabilization is the best out there? Canon.
Is *How It Works* having anything to do with it working better than the other stabilizations?
probably. )

2. Agreed on their noise, and our wish to make Panasonic replace their "venus" engine.

3. Astute observation of the *lack* of Leica, worrisome...

4. It's ideal in size & capability, IF they put the equivalent to Nikon's Stacked 4 lenses { 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, 200-400 }.
IF they do that, at 2.8, they will sell 10x as many of their SLRs as Nikon does of their SLRs. ( and stick movie mode, and 3 custom-modes in it, and gimme some primes, and Strobes! with wireless sync ).

Finally, this is the first & last time I'm posting to TOP:
I've tried, before, one time spending a few HOURS putting together a post for you, on exactly how to get very compact, very fast, very huge, and very trustworthy storage attached to your computer.
Every last damn component & configuration point solved & shown.

TypePad, however, works by requiring ALL posters to have *preemptively* let TypePad script our browsers.

Perhaps you've heard of the concept of web-scripting being able to hijack browsers to trash our systems, install malware, etc?

No-one, who values their system ( and understands the digital equivalent to Defensive Driving ) permits all web-sites to script one's browser, and expects to have a trustworthy & working system.
Firefox addon NoScript ( this is the one that killed it for my previous posts )
Firefox addon AdBlock
Firefox addon Filterset G
Firefox addon Perspectives ( checks HTTPS trustworthyness, for purchases, account creation, etc )

TypePad walks you through the posting, ( in other words, you can Preview repeatedly ), then throws away all your work, with a message like
~Ha ha! thrown away, because you didn't permit us preemptively to script your browser!
Try going back, but you'll find we screw with your browser's keeping of the previous edit, so it's ALL GONE~

If you want to compensate for TypePad's abuse of contribution, or correct for it, put a warning, in BIG UNFRIENDLY LETTERS to "Enable JavaScript for all TypePad, or your contribution will be thrown away by TypePad", and you may discover that the number of people who TRY to post is much higher than what the number of successful posts suggest, and it may also explain why many try TOP, try posting, get *violently* offended, and never come back.

Well wishes & Cheers,

Kerr Mudgeon.

The 14-140mm lens on the roadmap has an "HD" designation. Supposedly there will be a new camera announced with HD video mode. Perhaps a line of still cameras and a line of video cameras sharing the same lenses?

Interesting camera and design. This might be something I was looking for: a small, compact, "day out" camera with a proper sized sensor and compact lenses. Particularly when traveling on the motorcycle. It might be particular interestng with the adapter and that killer lens, the Oly Zuiko 12-60.

Both images from Panasonic look soft to me though. I downloaded the daylight portrait from their site and it looks soft or lacking in detail as well.

I just sold my FZ18 because the image quality; noise. If Panasonic would put the m4/3 sensor in something like an FZ28, for example, with an articulating LCD and a big Leica zoom, just think of the possibilities. Now you have smaller, better image quality, a great lens with range, not having to change lenses, and Fun!
The FZ18 was a Fun camera to use. It did so much; Raw, movies, extreme close focus, big zoom, silly Scene Modes. Fun! (too bad for that tiny sensor)
Just the target audience of what Panasonic wants to sell to.
Remember this isn't going to replace anybodies D3 or MKIII. But it could be a great/Fun carry around camera that will give much better image quality.

Hi Frndz,

Ofcourse G1 can't be compared to a fullframe DSLR.But its packed with almost all features.They want to perform their G with HD work smooth like a camcoder;nothing less than that.So they will introduce HD in next versions only.About our worries about picture quality,noise etc etc,I think we'll have to wait to hear 'real' comments from 'real' people.

For any revolution,ther will be a lot of protestands.But without forgetting the fact that Panasonic is 'really' new to the world of photography when compared to its rivals;I think we should appriciate
the effort Panasonic's R&D people did in implimenting such a new & versatile idea.
May be G1 will turn out to be a big flop.But I'm sure in the years to come all manufactures will try to omit the 'Optical view Finder Concept'.Imagine a Nikon D90+ with a full time LVF,a real fast camera with real good quality pics & much smaller in size !

I'm belive G1 is just an expirimental product by Panasonic.They are definatey planning something bigger.May be a full size sensor with the same concepts of G1.
Then that will be dream come true.

After all why always stick on to the 'vintage' concepts of DSLRs.Aren't you boared with that concept of a Mirror Box !


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