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Monday, 22 September 2008

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Body only : 20.000 euro !
Who's going to be crazy enough to pay that amount of money while the new 5D costs only 1/10 of the price. I'd know what to do with my money.

Well said, my man.

This is the best Photokina ever.

I love the look of the new Olympus.
And the Leica should be powerful, if they have not f***ed anything up.

Nice to see Leica thinking ambitiously.

You might mention in your post that their new system is an SLR. I had to follow the links to find out that bit of information.

Is this the death knell for digital rangefinders?

For me Oly's "DMD" 4/3's is DOD. No, real viewfinder. Why didn't they look at their great Pen FT for a form factor and at least have a nice EVF?

I'd be more excited about Micro 4/3 if I thought the image quality would be on a par with the bottom end of Nikon and Canon's DSLR offerings.

I'd be more excited about the Leica S2 (assuming it's real) if I thought there was a possibility of owning one.

Of the two cameras you mention here, I'm surprised it's the Olympus that only gets a mention. The Olympus is the one that shows the innovation, I think.

Is it just me, or is it ugly?

I am excited about the micro Oly. Viewfinder or not, the point is to have a tiny SLR. Use a bigger SLR if you must have a viewfinder.

The Leica is exciting too, but I would imagine that a camera with that kind of resolution would start to require tilts and swings to get everything in focus, no matter how sharp the lens.

Your last paragraph is "key and essential."

Hassleblad and Leaf, et.al. are barely making ends meet financially with the large format digital camera, so for the new "S" format to succeed it will have to be so exclusive and so good and so limited in production that its price will match its cost.

In another ten years, maybe we shall see your dreams come true at the consumer level.

Personally, I believe the point and shoot camera is a dead end, with phonecams soon to replace them. You might consider that in your overall equation.

Pardon my ignorance but are there lots of things new in S2 system except the sensor size? Will it save or kill Leica?

It may not be over yet for Leica at Photokina as Andreas Kaufmann alluded in its presentation to a LEICA R10...

Mike: I don't (yet) see evidence of the "newthink" you cite with respect to the Leica S2. Sure, we don't yet have the camera's details (and won't for months). But to my eye it actually looks much more like "late-think".

The Oly prototype, on the other hand, suggests some "newthink".

"Body only : 20.000 euro! Who's going to be crazy enough to pay that amount of money while the new 5D costs only 1/10 of the price. I'd know what to do with my money..."

Working professionals aside (and I trust many of them to know what will and will not put food on their table), the rest are the same people that pay $200 more for a Panasonic point and shoot with a red badge on it.

I find it utterly crazy for any professional to spend $20,000 on a camera when just 10 years ago, you bought a Hasselblad system for well under $10,000 or even a Nikon F5 for under $5,000.

David,
There are fashion guys who charge more than $20k as a standard day rate.

Mike J.

Without a Direct Print button, it's useless for me.

I agree with Ken Tanaka - more like "old think" here. Even the aspect ratio is the same as the old 35mm. It does seem to be somewhat more minimalist than the other big DSLRs, but as Leica (and I) found out with the M8, it's possible to be *too* minimalist.

I do like the new micro 4/3, despite my feeling that it's doomed; and for me, the lack of a optical view finder means I won't be buying it.

Might I suggest a class project for this blog? It's been done in the Leica (L-Camera) forum -- why don't we design a DMD using current parts? For example, Pentax has all the parts; no reason they couldn't make one. Take the chip from the K20D, add the pancake lenses as the heart of the line, keep the OVF but ditch the flash, and then *squeeze.* And there you are.

JC

Many people on dpreview feel this is confirmation that Nikon has targeted rangefinder with their feb. announcement. Leica, with corporate spies in place, realizes they may not control their own destiny w/regard to rangefinder and decides to invent a format that allows them to be unique. Who is gonna be buying M8.2 when nikon throws a d3 sensor/performance in a rangefinder body for $3000?

I love Leica, don't get me wrong. I support them in every way I can with my modest budget... this camera, is a dream for me and I would love to have it, no live view, no IS/VR, no crap to encumber the photographer who feels the newer Japanese cameras have become to "bloated" with features.

It's a lot of money, but at least it's sexy. DNG out of the gate ensures it works with any RAW workflow already in place, Leica ain't stupid.

Even though the Japanese karietsu's have consolidated their stranglehold on camera technology over the last few years and are hardly quaking in their boots, they still must be somewhat surprised by such a bold move.

Either that or we just entered the "gilded" age of the digital camera.

Why can't there be a hotshoe EVF on the Micro 4/3 like there is on the Ricohs?

I'd love to see a 6X6 full frame someday. square is better format, IMO.

Eolake said: "This is the best Photokina ever..."

I am concerned by the mass of super early announcements--for this reason it becomes one of the most worrying photokinas ever. How many of these products will make the light of day? How many will disappoint?

When we still get suckered by 14 "Megapixel" Sigma SLRs we know that the marketing guys are still in full flow.

Will the OM DMD have ultra slow focussing? Will it be noisy? Will it be usable with longish lenses since it is so small? Imagine trying to look at the screen while trying to hand hold a 20mm (40mm equiv.) lens.

The Leica S2 costs 20k plus the same for a couple of lenses. It is a so what camera sure to fill the forums with drivel.

The only really good bit so far seems to be the video quality of the 5D MarkII. Everything else potentially exciting is just hype and/or clayware (the photographic equivalent of powerpointware in the software industry).

As far as I´m concerned, in this type of camera, the key is not the hardware, nor the software.

The key is the service avaliable for it. That was the main problem Pentax had with the 645d. The camera could be stellar, but not real pro service avaliable.

And even if Pentax is tiny compared to Canon, Sony or Olympus, it is HUGE compared to Leica as a bussiness infrastructure.

The slanted sides and grip immediately reminded me of the "Fisher Price Kid Tough Digital Camera", but it's missing the binocular viewfinder (and the purty colors).

See Amazon ASIN: B000QULFQC

Yes, interesting. Kind of.

Not being a working photographer (or perhaps I should write, a high-end working photographer or VERY well off amatuer), irrelevant.

The digital version of the old Pentax 6x7? In the film days, many more could afford that, than will, this.

What is the problem with the missing viewfinder? With modern cameras with their 3" screens it is a "solution looking for a problem", if I may paraphrase dpreview. :) I have noticed that I am using the screen more and more. (I do mostly landscape photography). The viewfinder is a technical appendix, I can only imagine it useful when the main screen is impossible to use (bright sun, panning?).
I hope that Olympus/Panasonic will give us more choices in m4/3 bodies, a photographers camera, with advanced metering and full manual control, and a fast DMD (like that term) camera that is ready when you whip it out of your pocket.

Oh, and the Leica? It is beautiful. So FEW buttons! :)

I think now the viewfinder is less a technical requirement and more a personal requirement. Speaking for myself, the viewfinder allows me to become involved with the subject, everything else is blocked out, the camera is an extension to my eye.

I'm afraid that holding a LCD screen at arms length is not the same thing. The camera becomes an object between me and the subject, I am no longer involved with the subject. It's the difference between being there and watching it on TV.

Don't get me wrong - LCDs are great, and I want a high quality, articulated version on my camera - it offers extra flexibility. I also have no problem with the little Oly dispensing with the viewfinder to keep the size down. I'd use it - but for a different sort of photography than I do with my SLR.

LCD vs Viewfinder is not just a matter of technology ... its a different way of working.

Pehaps a little extreme, but try telling an oil painter that acrylics are the way to go.

Cheers,

Colin

I'm already drooling over that little Olympus. It should be just about perfect with a clip on finder and a 20mm pancake permanently affixed to it.

"Without a Direct Print button, it's useless for me."
ROTFL!

Andrew: why so cynical? :)

"Will the OM DMD have ultra slow focussing?"

The Panasonic does it well.

"Will it be noisy?"

I don't see why it should be any more noisy than other cameras with similar sensor size.

"Imagine trying to look at the screen while trying to hand hold a 20mm (40mm equiv.) lens."

I do that all the time with my Ixus (Elph), works great for me.

Colin: for me, acrylics *is* the way to go. :-)

And I like working off a screen. It makes it easier to see the whole composition, and to change camera viewpoint (high and low).

Micro 4/3 looks to have tons of potential. With the right lenses on offer, I'd buy in today.

I don't mind the lack of OVF on the Oly. I'd stick an external viewfinder in the hot shoe and trust to the AF for most quick grab/street shots and use the screen when I had the time.

As to IQ with Micro 4/3, from what I've seen, they lag the entry level DSLRs by just a hair. In any case, plenty good enough for the type of use I have in mind. My main complaint is that I can't go out and buy that Oly and 3 primes right now, 'cause I'm ready even though they aren't. Looking forward to Samsung's entry in to this field.

I can argue a different DMD, mainly a slimmed down DSLR with a semi-permanent zoom lens, removable mainly for cleaning. Essentially this would a superzoom like a Canon S3 but with a DSLR sensor and speed, along with the ability to take movie clips.

I have big hands, and the ever shrinking sizes of cameras and phones drives me nuts, I like my DSLR cameras because they actually feel right, and I'd like the larger space used for higher capacity batteries or simply better electronics.

Some things that are hyped as "great," like swiveling LCD displays, I found I rarely used in practice, I much prefer a traditional mirror viewfinder. The image quality from most compact cameras isn't all that great, and the only compact I still keep is because it has an underwater case.

The Micro 4/3 may be a hit, especially if it can do movie clips and has fast enough a burst mode, but the Leica looks to be practically forever out of financial reach, and therefore a great concept but nothing I'll be using.

I'm waiting for home-built digital cameras myself. Interchangeable parts, standardized interfaces, replaceable/upgradeable sensors and image processing chips, filters, and body styles... iTouch style screens instead of buttons, software-controlled shooting.

I have had this question in the back of my head for the last couple of days. Micro 3/4. A camera with a digital viewfinder or LCD screen. How can someone call this a SLR. Single Lens Reflex.

Single Lens : Yes
Reflex : No

At least, Leica is teaching something to µ4/3 companies: you must introduce your new system with a whole set of lenses!

I'm as excited by µ4/3 as many people, but... where are the lenses? One Pana zoom? One 17 mm prime expected for 2009? Is that all we're going to get in one year and a half? Only rumours, but no real glass at this day...

Come on, Oly! Show us the goods or shut up...

Love the new camera, thanks for telling us more about it.

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